Does the Bible Actually Say Jesus Still Exists?

[Purple Knight]

Question for Debate: The Bible says Jesus came back from the dead. And there's a lot about what will happen, as far as Jesus forgiving people and resurrecting them, separating sheep from goats, giving out the rewards, and all that. Does it actually specify that he's still around to do so?

What counts as a lie?

What I'm actually wondering, is if we have a possible case where the vessel of forgiveness is indeed set, by God, as Jesus, but then God kills Jesus at some later point, wipes him out of existence, in order to promise, through Jesus, that everyone can be forgiven, but in reality nobody is forgiven and it doesn't technically count as a lie. I'm not arguing that this is necessarily true, it's a possible case scenario.

Is it possible God did this, because it neatly avoids actually lying while still being able to make a genuine promise, because the part of him that was Jesus meant every word, and then God gets to go back on it? Or is there something in Biblical canon that eliminates this possibility?

Another question I have here is about semantics. I happen to know someone who never lies, but nevertheless is very good at making sure he keeps every letter of his agreements in a way that advantages himself and the other person never would have agreed to if they'd known that would be the result. Then, he always says he is trustworthy. I mean, he is. He keeps the letter of his agreements. Is there a way to describe this behaviour and separate it from the type of trust you'd have for somebody who always keeps their word AND does it in a way that is fair to the other person, even if there's a way to take all and make the other person lose? In my head I'm calling them trustworthy1 (you will get what you expect; he will make sure he keeps the agreement AND is fair) and trustworthy2 (person won't lie, but you will not necessarily get what you expect). Are there better words for these concepts?

Is there a possibility that God is trustworthy1 to his own People, and trustworthy2 to everyone else?

[Yozavan]

The entire New testament proclaims that Jesus still exists, Mark 16:19 etc.

Hypothetically speaking, if God were to utterly and irrevocably destroy Jesus, would that oppose God's former proclamation that without Jesus the world is doomed? No, it would simply perpetuate the premise into perpetuity.

Church Creeds would simply adjust: " Without Christ the Son of God, the world is damned!
Alas, God exercised His sovereignty and utterly destroyed Jesus, therefore the world is irrevocably damned!

I suppose Trinitarian denominations would become Dualitarian

Whether church attendance would drop is another matter. I suppose the cleverest denomination would do just fine

[Purple Knight]

Church Creeds would simply adjust: " Without Christ the Son of God, the world is damned!
Alas, God exercised His sovereignty and utterly destroyed Jesus, therefore the world is irrevocably damned!

See, this is what I worry: Not only that God can do this if he wants to, but that he can do it within the limitations he's set for himself, like being trustworthy and not outright lying. So not only can he, but he might. I don't know if God actually said he wanted to save everybody.

It also reconciles a god that was once shockingly nepotist toward his own people, but then apparently changed his mind and became everybody's god. Yes, he became everybody's god through Jesus... who he maybe squishes, thus deceiving them all, without ever having lied to them, and keeping every promise he ever made to them.

He even makes it quite obvious. You can only be saved through Jesus. You can only be forgiven through Jesus. If he decides to remove Jesus, he never lied to anybody. People wonder why God would set up the world this way. Well, here's one plausible reason.

[Yozavan]

Church Creeds would simply adjust: " Without Christ the Son of God, the world is damned!
Alas, God exercised His sovereignty and utterly destroyed Jesus, therefore the world is irrevocably damned!

See, this is what I worry: Not only that God can do this if he wants to, but that he can do it within the limitations he's set for himself, like being trustworthy and not outright lying. So not only can he, but he might. I don't know if God actually said he wanted to save everybody.

It also reconciles a god that was once shockingly nepotist toward his own people, but then apparently changed his mind and became everybody's god. Yes, he became everybody's god through Jesus... who he maybe squishes, thus deceiving them all, without ever having lied to them, and keeping every promise he ever made to them.

That's the paradox of Christian theology. If Yahweh threw the Jews an unexpected curve ball, ( you ain't my people no more, and the Torah is kaput ), He may well throw Christians one too! The Christian God has a shady, esoteric past. Paul calls the curve ball a " mystery " in Ephesians 3:3-5, unknown and unknowable until it was revealed to the apostles. Shady to say the least.

[1213]

Question for Debate: The Bible says Jesus came back from the dead. And there's a lot about what will happen, as far as Jesus forgiving people and resurrecting them, separating sheep from goats, giving out the rewards, and all that. Does it actually specify that he's still around to do so?
...

Bible says:

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Heb. 13:8

"You men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky will come back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky."
Acts 1:11

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them.
Matt. 18:20

I understand those so that Jesus still exists.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #1]
Of course Jesus is still around. The Bible says that he will destroy all the nations that have formed themselves against him and reign as King for a long time.

See Revelation 19: 11-21 and Revelation 20: 6.

[Difflugia]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #1]
Of course Jesus is still around. The Bible says that he will destroy all the nations that have formed themselves against him and reign as King for a long time.

See Revelation 19: 11-21 and Revelation 20: 6.

Considering all the other things that have to be completely symbolic to preserve your particular theology, what's your justification that any part of that description refers to someone that is literally "still around?"

[JehovahsWitness]

WHERE IS JESUS RIGHT NOW?

1 PETER 3:21b, 22
.… the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him.

The bible does state that Jesus is in heaven. Since he has been given immortality, he could not have died since those words were penned two thousand years ago.



JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JESUS CHRIST, CONCEPTION & BIRTH, DEATH, and ... RESURRECTION

[Capbook]

WHERE IS JESUS RIGHT NOW?

1 PETER 3:21b, 22
.… the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him.

The bible does state that Jesus is in heaven. Since he has been given immortality, he could not have died since those words were penned two thousand years ago.



JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JESUS CHRIST, CONCEPTION & BIRTH, DEATH, and ... RESURRECTION

Could Jesus be everywhere?

Matt 18:20
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #1]

Question for Debate: The Bible says Jesus came back from the dead. And there's a lot about what will happen, as far as Jesus forgiving people and resurrecting them, separating sheep from goats, giving out the rewards, and all that. Does it actually specify that he's still around to do so?

What counts as a lie?

What I'm actually wondering, is if we have a possible case where the vessel of forgiveness is indeed set, by God, as Jesus, but then God kills Jesus at some later point, wipes him out of existence, in order to promise, through Jesus, that everyone can be forgiven, but in reality nobody is forgiven and it doesn't technically count as a lie. I'm not arguing that this is necessarily true, it's a possible case scenario.

Is it possible God did this, because it neatly avoids actually lying while still being able to make a genuine promise, because the part of him that was Jesus meant every word, and then God gets to go back on it? Or is there something in Biblical canon that eliminates this possibility?

Something like these?


"My teaching is not My own," [Jesus] replied. "It comes from Him who sent Me. John 7:16

"I have much to say about you and much to judge. But the One who sent Me is truthful, and what I have heard from Him, I tell the world."[/u] John 8:26

So [Jesus] said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me. John 8:28

I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it. 50And I know that His command leads to eternal life. So I speak exactly what the Father has told Me to say.” John 12:49-50


Things like this is what the spirit brought to mind as I was reading your question.

God is the One who spoke these things FIRST - and then Christ told us what His Father first told Him.



Peace again to you,