Does Hell Exist?

[Data]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

[MissKate13]

[Have you looked at the etymology of the word “hell?”

Good Morning! I hope you day/night is going well.

I have not looked at the etymology of the English word “hell.” I looked at it years ago, but don’t remember. Perhaps you’d like to share with me what you’ve learned.

I know of nowhere in scripture that says hell is the lake of fire.

You’re right. No Scripture specifically names the lake of Fire hell. However, I’m wondering what you think the unquenchable fire is that Jesus is speaking of in Matthew 3:12? What hell fire is Jesus speaking of in Matthew 5:22? Imho, it can be inferred that Jesus is referring to the Lake of Fire. Your thoughts?

I agree but “hades” and “sheol' are the state of the unconscious dead "the grave" in that sense.

As I wrote in my initial post, “hell” is not the grave. There are three Greek words that refer to grave in the NT. Hades is the unseen world of the dead, not dead bodies. The rich man’s body lay in the grave. His spirit/soul was in hades. So was Lazarus’, except he was in the Paradise part. Lazarus was in the Tartarus part.

You might want to look up the Hebrew word “sheol” and see how it’s used in the Old Testament.

I have.

You say[/color] “The first is “ade.” It is translated hell ten times” which is correct but did you see how many times the word “ade” (G86-hades) is used in the New Testament? Do a search and let me know what the 11th is.
Peace.

Is this a test?
How about 1 Corinthians 15:55 where hades was substituted with θάνατος, which means "death".

Question: Do you believe in eternal torment?

[EBA]

Have you looked at the etymology of the word “hell?”

Good Morning! I hope you day/night is going well.
I have not looked at the etymology of the English word “hell.” I looked at it years ago, but don’t remember. Perhaps you’d like to share with me what you’ve learned.

Hello, thanks and best wishes.

A quick search gave me this:

Old English hel, hell, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch hel and German Hölle, from an Indo-European root meaning ‘to cover or hide’.

You’re right. No Scripture specifically names the lake of Fire hell. However, I’m wondering what you think the unquenchable fire is that Jesus is speaking of in Matthew 3:12?

Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. (Mat 13:12)

It’s this fire:

For our God is a consuming fire. (Heb 12:29)

Look at what John says in verse 11 of Mat 3:

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

What hell fire is Jesus speaking of in Matthew 5:22?

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Same fire, For our God is a consuming fire.

Imho, it can be inferred that Jesus is referring to the Lake of Fire. Your thoughts?

Sure, but again it’s the same fire.

It is God’s judgment either now on his Elect or later for everyone else.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17)

I agree but “hades” and “sheol' are the state of the unconscious dead "the grave" in that sense.

As I wrote in my initial post, “hell” is not the grave. There are three Greek words that refer to grave in the NT. Hades is the unseen world of the dead, not dead bodies.

Well that would be true if you believe in the Greek gods, but we don’t. That definition does not agree with the etymology of the word.

Where do you think that definition came from?

The rich man’s body lay in the grave. His spirit/soul was in hades. So was Lazarus’, except he was in the Paradise part. Lazarus was in the Tartarus part.

That is a parable. And though parables are true, they are not literally true.

You might want to look up the Hebrew word “sheol” and see how it’s used in the Old Testament.

I have.

Did you realize that in the KJV it is translared 31 times as “grave” and 31 time as “hell” and that at no time is sheol ever associated with punishment after death.

How about 1 Corinthians 15:55 where hades was substituted with θάνατος, which means "death".

Hades here is not substituted for death it is translated "grave".

O death, where is thy sting? O grave (hades), where is thy victory?

Hades and death go hand in hand as we can see here:

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.- (Rev 6:8)

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev 20:14)

If you believe that the lake of fire is hell how then can hell be cast into hell?

Question: Do you believe in eternal torment?

No. In fact I believe it to be the most damnable doctrine ever to exist.

God Bless.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to EBA in post #262]

You asked, “If you believe that the lake of fire is hell how then can hell be cast into hell?”

Death and Hades will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14).

Those are Jesus’ words. You’ll have the opportunity to tell Him someday that He was wrong.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41)

You say there’s no such place. You contradict Jesus.

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (Matthew 24:46).

Jesus warns that evil people will go away into everlasting punishment. You say “Not true!”

Our God would not be a God of justice, EBA, if He did not punish the evil of this world. Imho, your doctrine is destructive. It gives license to eat, drink and be merry, to live for self. Killing, raping, molesting, lying and stealing all go unpunished in your way of thinking.

I’m afraid that many people are in for one “hell” of a surprise come judgement day.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about hell. I don’t think there’s a need for further discussion. Neither of us is going to change our thinking.

Have a blessed day! Hope to see you in other threads.

Kate

[EBA]

[Replying to EBA in post #262]

You asked, “If you believe that the lake of fire is hell how then can hell be cast into hell?”

Death and Hades will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14).

Those are Jesus’ words. You’ll have the opportunity to tell Him someday that He was wrong.

I see you changed the translation of “hell” to “hades” there. Maybe that question had you stumped.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41)

You say there’s no such place. You contradict Jesus.

No, just your doctrine.

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (Matthew 24:46).

Jesus warns that evil people will go away into everlasting punishment. You say “Not true!”

I say that is a terrible translation that has led “many” sheep astray.

Our God would not be a God of justice, EBA, if He did not punish the evil of this world. Imho, your doctrine is destructive. It gives license to eat, drink and be merry, to live for self. Killing, raping, molesting, lying and stealing all go unpunished in your way of thinking.

No one said there wasn’t punishment for the wicked, but a just God does not punish finite sin with infinite torment. IMHO, that would be psychotic.

I’m afraid that many people are in for one “hell” of a surprise come judgement day.

That is a fact:

So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but FEW CHOSEN. (Mat 20:16

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)

Very "few" believe that Jesus Christ is the “Saviour of the world.” Most believe he’ll fail to to do what his Father sent him to do.

But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. (Mat10:33)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about hell. I don’t think there’s a need for further discussion. Neither of us is going to change our thinking.

You entered a thread entitled “Does Hell Exist?.” Did you expect everyone to agree with your assertion, else, “I don’t think there’s a need for further discussion. Neither of us is going to change our thinking.”

Maybe you should seek out a study thread on the subject with like-minded thinkers.

Peace be with you Kate.

[William]

[onewithhim]

That billboard is misleading. A fiery hell does not exist, and "Hell" means mankind's grave. God would not want to see anyone being tortured forever with no way out. The "lake of fire" in Revelation 20:15 is a symbol of the annihilation of the evil person. It is just as symbolic as the casting of death and hell into the lake of fire. (Verse 14.) How can death actually be cast anywhere? How can hell be cast into itself?

Most King James Version Bibles have in the footnote for Rev. 20:14: Hell is "Greek for Hades, or, the grave." How does one argue with that?

Death and hell being cast into the lake of fire means that death and the grave will no longer be realities. They will be eradicated forever.

[William]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #266]

God would not want to see anyone being tortured forever with no way out.

Is God okay with seeing anyone being tortured for an unspecified time - but with a way out eventually?


Negative NDE

Dr. Jeffrey Long. Absolutely. No, that's exactly what we're seeing. In many, if not most of the true hellish near death experiences that I've investigated.
The people come back and they'll say, you know, literally, they needed a if you will, a
spiritual kick in the pants. I mean, this is something that they had to have. And there was no other way for them to confront those issues in the life they have they anger, that guilt that resentments, that bitterness, those those certain issues, that was impairing the earthly life. But once confronted in a near death experience, these people can go on and live as other near death experiences do have those same after effects where they're more compassionate, loving, and they go on not fearing that that is something they're fated for, for their, for eternity after death. They just simply realize that's a product of a loving greater intelligence to help them to live their earthly life better and in a way that they couldn't possibly have faced without that type of experience. We hear that a lot.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to William in post #267]

Being loving and compassionate, being able to live our lives better, can happen without any near-death experience. Most people achieve those things without an experience like that. There is no good reason for having a near-death experience. Paul admonished Christians to put some effort into changing our personalities. The Bible doesn't say anything about needing a near-death experience.

Colossians 3: "Deaden your body members that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry....But now really put them all away from you, wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech and obscene talk out of your mouth. Strip off the old personality with its practices, and clothe yourselves with the new personality, which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it." (Colossians 3: 5,8,9)

It takes effort on our part. We must put away all bad traits, to the best of our abilities. It doesn't come instantly.

[William]

Being loving and compassionate, being able to live our lives better, can happen without any near-death experience. Most people achieve those things without an experience like that. There is no good reason for having a near-death experience. Paul admonished Christians to put some effort into changing our personalities. The Bible doesn't say anything about needing a near-death experience.

Who was arguing that people NEED near death experiences? Who are they to say what GOD deems as necessary for an individual to experience?

Your other comments are not relevant to my post and you did not answer the question I put to you.

Q: Is God okay with seeing anyone being tortured for an unspecified time - but with a way out eventually?

[onewithhim]

Being loving and compassionate, being able to live our lives better, can happen without any near-death experience. Most people achieve those things without an experience like that. There is no good reason for having a near-death experience. Paul admonished Christians to put some effort into changing our personalities. The Bible doesn't say anything about needing a near-death experience.

Who was arguing that people NEED near death experiences? Who are they to say what GOD deems as necessary for an individual to experience?

Your other comments are not relevant to my post and you did not answer the question I put to you.

Q: Is God okay with seeing anyone being tortured for an unspecified time - but with a way out eventually?

No, He is not ok with that either. The whole idea is foreign to God's personality and doesn't jive with his attributes (love, mercy, wisdom, power and compassion).