Does Hell Exist?

[Data]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

[JehovahsWitness]

1. Since when does immortality mean life that ends? If that immortal life began and continues indefinitely is it not "unending" or "everlasting"?

Now we’re getting somewhere.

So does that mean you agree with the above. Is the statement I mean true ? Yes or No?

[EBA]

1. Since when does immortality mean life that ends? If that immortal life began and continues indefinitely is it not "unending" or "everlasting"?

Now we’re getting somewhere.

So does that mean you agree with the above. Is the statement I mean true ? Yes or No?

You'll need to answers my questions before i answer yours; this is not a one way conversation.

Peace.

[MissKate13]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

I did an independent word study on the English term hell. Here is what I came up with.

The English word hell appears twenty-three times in the King James Version of the New Testament. “Hell” actually represents three different terms in the Greek New Testament.

The first is “ade.” It is translated hell ten times in the KJV. Many new versions use the word Hades instead of hell. There are several ways Hades is used in the NT. The best way to determine its use is by context. In some places Hades is defined as the abode of departed spirits.

Gehenna (geennan), on the other hand, seems to be a place of torment, one to be avoided. Gehenna originates from two Hebrew words meaning “Valley of Hinnom.” The Valley of Hinnom, in the mind of the Jews, was detestable, disgusting, sickening, entirely unpleasant, and a place to be avoided. That was exactly what Jesus wanted to get across each time he used the term geennan.

Tartarus -Peter wrote, “God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment . . .” (2 Pet. 2:4). Here, “hell” is from the Greek term tartarosas. This is this word’s only occurrence in the New Testament. Here, it is used as the abode of evil angels prior to their banishment to Gehenna, their ultimate destiny (Mt. 25:41). Note that Peter writes, “the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment” (2 Peter 2:9)

“Hell” is not the grave. In the New Testament there are three words that refer to the grave. They are taphos, mnema, and mnemeion. Taphos is used seven times and is translated sepulcher six times and tomb once.
Mnema is translated as tomb twice, grave once, and sepulcher four times.
Mnemeion is used five times as tomb, twenty-nine times as sepulcher, and eight times as grave.

See for yourself.

Mt 5:22 geennan
Mt 5:29 geennan
Mt 5:30 geennan
Mt 10:28 geenne
Mt 11:23 adou
Mt 16:18 adou
Mt 18:9 geennan
Mt 23:15 geennes
Mt 23:33 geennes
Mark 9:43 geennan
Mark 9:47 geennan
Mark 9:47 geennan
Luke 10:15 adou
Luke 12:5 geennan
Luke 16:23 ade
Acts 2:27 aden
Acts 2:31 aden
James 3:6 geennes
2 Peter 2:4 tartarōsas
Rev 1:18 adou
Rev 6:8 ades
Rev 20:13 ades
Rev 20:14 ades

[JehovahsWitness]

1. Since when does immortality mean life that ends? If that immortal life began and continues indefinitely is it not "unending" or "everlasting"?

Now we’re getting somewhere.

So does that mean you agree with the above. Is the statement I mean true ? Yes or No?

You'll need to answers my questions before i answer yours; this is not a one way conversation.

Peace.

We'll get nowhere if you cannot accept or deny a clear logical point. Upon what do you expect to build the next point if nothing can be established independent of what comes next.

That is like a man, upon being asked "Is this woman your wife?" answers "That depends, what's she done?"

The point is correct ir incorrect? Playing for time is at best evasive and at worst indicative of bad motives. You objected to the very notion of a life which begins at some point in time but continues indefinitely ( one of the definitions for the English term " everlasting")

Yet you acknowledge that the greek word can refer to {qoute } " series of ages stretching to infinity"

If a life begins and continues uninterupted for " series of ages stretching to infinity" would that not be a life that fits the English definition if "everlasting" ie a life which begins at some point in time but continues indefinitely (through an endless millenia for example)? Yes or No? A conversation isnt an endless (everlasting) ping-pong of questions and answers with nothing being mutually accepted as correct or true along the way.

[EBA]

We'll get nowhere if you cannot accept or deny a clear logical point.

We’ll get nowhere of you can’t first answer my questions.

Upon what do you expect to build the next point if nothing can be established independent of what comes next.

I expect to build the next point after you answer my questions.
And, by the way, after (if) you answer my questions I will certainly answer yours.
That’s called mutual respect.

The point is correct ir incorrect? Playing for time is at best evasive and at worst indicative of bad motives.

You are being dishonest.
In Post #236 I asked:

When does mortal man become immortal?

Are you immortal? Do you now have everlasting life. If not, then when does your everlasting life start?

Did you answer?

No you did not.

Instead you avoided my questions and tried to shift the conversation by posing this question in post #237:

1. Since when does immortality mean life that ends? If that immortal life began and continues indefinitely is it not "unending" or "everlasting"?

It’s quite clear that you are the one being evasive.

Then you went on to deceive by misquoting me when you did this:

Since Jesus used a word that can be understood to be

...a series of ages stretching to infinity

what is the objection to the idea of a person having life that essentially continues to ---> "infinity"<---- ?

That was not my quote.
This was:

"and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity."

And here you are deceiving again by saying:

Yet you acknowledge that the greek word can refer to {qoute } " series of ages stretching to infinity"

No I not acknowledge that.

Here is what I acknowledge:

"and of one (ONE AGE) of a series of ages (EACH AGE BEING ONE AGE) stretching to infinity."

So, age upon age upon age upon age stretching to infinity.

Or, aion upon aion upon aion upon aion stretching to infinity.

But certainly not everlasting upon everlasting upon everlasting upon everlasting…………………..

A day is not a series of days stretching to a year.

A year is not a series of years stretching to a decade.

A decade is not a series of decades stretching to a century.

Is that clear enough?

[JehovahsWitness]

So, age upon age upon age upon age stretching to infinity.

An age is any period of time, agreed?

• So for example, 1000 years is "an age". So, if 1000 years is an age and we multiple that 1000 by infinity (1,000 by , 1,000 by, by 1,000 ... stretching on into infinity . ..) how long would that be ?

• If someone' s life began at a particular point in time and subsequently lasted (1,000 years x infinity or to put it another way, their life lasted through "age upon age upon age upon age stretching to infinity") how long would they live?

JW

[EBA]

So, age upon age upon age upon age stretching to infinity.

An age is any period of time, agreed?

Agreed.

• So for example, 1000 years is "an age". So, if 1000 years is an age and we multiple that 1000 by infinity (1,000 by , 1,000 by, by 1,000 ... stretching on into infinity . ..) how long would that be ?

• If someone' s life began at a particular point in time and subsequently lasted (1,000 years x infinity or to put it another way, their life lasted through "age upon age upon age upon age stretching to infinity") how long would they live?

JW

Infinity is infinity. You can multiply it by one but multiplied by any other number makes no sense.

And you are still avoiding my questions:

When does mortal man become immortal?

Are you immortal?

Do you now have everlasting life.

If not, then when does your everlasting life start?

Peace.

[EBA]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

I did an independent word study on the English term hell. Here is what I came up with.

The English word hell appears twenty-three times in the King James Version of the New Testament. “Hell” actually represents three different terms in the Greek New Testament.

The first is “ade.” It is translated hell ten times in the KJV. Many new versions use the word Hades instead of hell. There are several ways Hades is used in the NT. The best way to determine its use is by context. In some places Hades is defined as the abode of departed spirits.

Gehenna (geennan), on the other hand, seems to be a place of torment, one to be avoided. Gehenna originates from two Hebrew words meaning “Valley of Hinnom.” The Valley of Hinnom, in the mind of the Jews, was detestable, disgusting, sickening, entirely unpleasant, and a place to be avoided. That was exactly what Jesus wanted to get across each time he used the term geennan.

Tartarus -Peter wrote, “God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment . . .” (2 Pet. 2:4). Here, “hell” is from the Greek term tartarosas. This is this word’s only occurrence in the New Testament. Here, it is used as the abode of evil angels prior to their banishment to Gehenna, their ultimate destiny (Mt. 25:41). Note that Peter writes, “the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment” (2 Peter 2:9)

“Hell” is not the grave. In the New Testament there are three words that refer to the grave. They are taphos, mnema, and mnemeion. Taphos is used seven times and is translated sepulcher six times and tomb once.
Mnema is translated as tomb twice, grave once, and sepulcher four times.
Mnemeion is used five times as tomb, twenty-nine times as sepulcher, and eight times as grave.

Hi Kate, I've read this a few times but can't seem to find your definition of "hell" or whether or not you think it should even be in the translations.

What say you?

Peace.

[onewithhim]

So, age upon age upon age upon age stretching to infinity.

An age is any period of time, agreed?

Agreed.

• So for example, 1000 years is "an age". So, if 1000 years is an age and we multiple that 1000 by infinity (1,000 by , 1,000 by, by 1,000 ... stretching on into infinity . ..) how long would that be ?

• If someone' s life began at a particular point in time and subsequently lasted (1,000 years x infinity or to put it another way, their life lasted through "age upon age upon age upon age stretching to infinity") how long would they live?

JW

Infinity is infinity. You can multiply it by one but multiplied by any other number makes no sense.

And you are still avoiding my questions:

When does mortal man become immortal?

Are you immortal?

Do you now have everlasting life.

If not, then when does your everlasting life start?

Peace.

Could I throw in my $.02? Mortal man does not become immortal. Only Jesus and his co-rulers are immortal. Man will remain mortal, but this doesn't mean that they will die. If a mortal human being remains faithful to God he will live forever.

I am not immortal nor is anyone else except Jesus and his Holy Ones who will rule with him. If you are using the word "immortal" to mean "able live forever," then I would answer differently. Mortal man becomes able to live forever right after the thousand years are over and they have remained faithful.

I have everlasting life so far. I am faithful now and am striving to be forever. As long as I stay on the road to everlasting life (Matthew 7: 13,14) and endure to the end (Matthew 24:13) I will be saved.

Everlasting life starts now as long as we remain faithful. The final test will sort out many who will not remain faithful after the Millennial Reign, but those who remain faithful will "come to life," that is---they will be able to live forever and enjoy life as humans were intended to do from the beginning.

[JehovahsWitness]

So, age upon age upon age upon age stretching to infinity.

An age is any period of time, agreed?

Agreed.

So .. given the above, my question for you is the following ...

• If someone' s life began at a particular point in time and subsequently lasted (1,000 years x infinity or as you put it "age upon age upon age stretching to infinity") how long would they live?

JW