The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1350]

The first and second creation stories are your fiction.

Sorry. I didn't write the stories. Any fiction built upon them, comes from the conflation of the two events.

Your story here makes YHVH out to have made some poor decisions that led to system "failures" and is bizarre to say the least.

And you believe YHVH made the earth in need of work and completion. Was that YHVHs original "failure"?

Of course not. It was very good according to YHVH - because it was meant to be incomplete.

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1349]

I have already explained to you that mine quoting and arguing out of context is a mistake and advise you to cease with that tactic.

Playing words games is also a poor way in which to present argument.

As long as you are not claiming that the earth was created as an original paradise, we agree. If not, then you will have to explain to the reader why you believe that it was.

[JehovahsWitness]

It [the earth] was not finished at all, otherwise YHVH would not have commissioned humans to subdue it.

WAS THE EARTH "FINISHED" BY THE END OF THE 6TH CREATIVE DAY?

What God's intention were or are regarding his creative works, nobody can say; the bible however is clear that by the 7TH creative day, he was well pleased with what he had done and declared it "very good" by his own matchless and perfect standards.

ISAIAH 45:18 World English Bible

For thus says Yahweh who created the heavens, the God who formed the earth and made it, who established it and didn't create it a waste, who formed it to be inhabited: "I am Yahweh; and there is no other

The idea that something wild, uncultivated or untamed is cannot also be "finished" is both illogical and unscriptural. The earth like a beautiful wild horse was of course "finished" (complete), as in no further additions would need to be made for it to fulfill its stated purpose..

The earth was FINISHED just as a wild horse is finished.

Subduing, cultivating and populating indicates God had an ongoing project for the planet, not to be confused with finishing (or improving) the planet.







JEHOVAH'S WITNESS



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EARLY EARTH, THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS and ...THE GARDEN OF EDEN

[myth-one.com]

It was very good according to YHVH - because it was meant to be incomplete.

No it was not created as incomplete! It was created very good and became "incomplete" (or whatever) due to neglect.

Genesis 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty; darkness was over the surface of the deep...

For what purpose would God want to make something incomplete?

And if something is incomplete, then it has never truly been created!

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens and the earth have been completely created after Genesis 1:1. He did not partially create it.

This is not to say that upkeep of some kind might not be needed in the future as the heavens and the earth are in the physical world -- which is changeable.

The heavens and earth were made "very good" according to God. "Intelligent" beings can make the earth better or worse -- by killing most of the buffalo, for example. Destroying the environment is a biggie. Voting is another.

[myth-one.com]

It was not finished at all, otherwise YHVH would not have commissioned humans to subdue it.

WAS THE EARTH "FINISHED" BY THE END OF THE 6TH CREATIVE DAY?

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

That is all that is said about the original creation of the heavens and the earth.

Nothing is said regarding how long that creation process required!

And humans were not created at all in the original creation. Was there nothing to be subdued? Or were other non-human beings created for that purpose?

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1353]

Subduing, cultivating and populating indicates God had an ongoing project for the planet, not to be confused with finishing (or improving) the planet.

Good. We are making progress.

The improving is related to humans making something of a paradise of it, even as per JW beliefs...and such a thing has never been on the planet before, because YHVH did not create a paradise over all the Earth - but only later on - in one specific part of the Earth - we are not informed where the Garden was situated, or of Eden's size, but it would not have had to have been of great expanse, nor necessarily permanent. It was simply an example of what could be achieved.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1354]

It was very good according to YHVH - because it was meant to be incomplete.

No it was not created as incomplete! It was created very good and became "incomplete" (or whatever) due to neglect.

Not according to the evidence - both of evolution and the First Creation Story.
It was not neglected at all - YHVH created it so that it would require that humans breed and subdue it.
If YHVH had not created humans to subdue it, then yes - I would agree that it would appear to be neglected. But that is not how the story goes...humans exist and it is not neglected, but utilized, just as YHVH commissioned things to be.

For what purpose would YHVH want to make something incomplete?

It is written! So that YHVH would create Humans who would breed and slowly and surely spread out and subdue it. That is how YHVH chose to 'complete' the Earth - through creating humans to do so.

And if something is incomplete, then it has never truly been created!

Except YHVH shows us otherwise, by creating something which was incomplete.

Indeed, even by examining the nature of The Universe, we can clearly ascertain that the universe is unfolding, and is doing so because YHVH made it that way. We are literally in the midst of a thing still being created.

From YHVHs perspective, what was set in place for this unfolding to occur is 'finished' - not the creation itself - but the initial setup.

This is not to say that upkeep of some kind might not be needed in the future as the heavens and the earth are in the physical world -- which is changeable.

Precisely. So we should now be able to see that we are in agreement. YHVH created the universe in such a way that - after the initial setup - it would unfold accordingly.

And that has been, what is occurring

[2ndpillar2]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

It seems no one has answered your question, for they apparently do not know what the "kingdom" entails. With regards to your Luke 16 quote, Matthew 11 is better stated, whereas the "kingdom" is when "David" rules over the combined house of Judah and Ephraim, on the land given to Jacob (Ez 37). Matt 11 states that the present kingdom on earth is taken over by men by force, which would be under the leadership of the beast, the dragon who gives his authority to the beast, and the women (Babylon and her harlot daughters), who sit on the beast (Rev 17:3). As pointed out in Mt 11:24, the timing is with respect to the "day of judgment", which is at the end of the age, in which "understanding" is kept from the "wicked"/"wise and intelligent" (Mt 11:25) (Daniel 12:10).

[JehovahsWitness]

The improving is related to humans making something of a paradise of it, even as per JW beliefs...

ADAPT OR IMPROVE?


Jehovahs Witness beliefs do not hold that humans were charged to "improve" the earth. The earth, according to the JWs teachings was created perfect since it was created by God and according to Deuteronomy 32: 4 all his works (including his creative works) are perfect. One cannot improve on perfection. Note the following commentaries from the JW official website :

Those with an earthly hope will also have the joy of caring for this beautiful planet that Jehovah so perfectly designed to be their home - The Watchtower, Jan 15, 2021

The earth was perfect, idyllic (as in extremely and beautiful ) by the end of the 6th creative day. But as the Jehovahs Witness manual Aid to bible understanding points out, (p. 1290)

Perfection of the planet Earth is likewise not incompatible with variety, change, or contrast; it allows for the simple and the complex, the plain and the fancy, the sour and the sweet, the rough and the smooth, the meadows and the woods, the mountains and the valleys. It embraces the stimulating freshness of early spring, the warmth of summer with its azure-blue skies, the loveliness of autumn colors, the pure beauty of freshly fallen snow. (Ge 8:22)

Thus the commission to modify or change their environment to live comfortably by extending the paradise garden was not a commission to "improve" on perfection but simply to channel and direct its abundant resources for their convenience.





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[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1359]

Thus the commission to modify or change their environment to live comfortably by extending the paradise garden was not a commission to "improve" on perfection but simply to channel and direct its abundant resources for their convenience.

Great. I am glad this has been made clear.

The commission to subdue the Earth has to do with helping the planet with it's growth and to channel human energy for the convenience of humanity.

In that, it should be agreed that without humans, the planet would have nothing in which to "channel and direct its abundant resources" and so humans are part of what makes everything perfect.