"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.


To Note: This OP has came about more as an eye-opener about Jehovah's Witnesses rather than any attempt at disparagement. Recognizing that every religion, denomination, and congregation has the right to operate as best it sees fit under its particular guidelines, my presentation and comments are strictly the result of surprise and befuddlement after watching the video, Shun Your Family.


I've heard of disfellowship among Jehovah's Witnesses before, but never realized the extent it goes to as a disloyalty test. So, what is disfellowship?

"Disfellowship:
To 'remove the wicked
man' or woman from
the congregation
Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.23 simplified edition"

"Jehovah's Witnesses are disfellowshipped for practices such as disagreeing with Watchtower doctrine, smoking or fornication, if judged by the congregation elders as unrepentant. A disfellowshipped person is to be shunned by all family and friends, usually for the remainder of their life, and go through tremendous emotional suffering. Whilst Scriptural precedence limits association with wrongdoers, Watchtower application of disfellowshipping seriously deviates from Bible guidelines.
source


A particularly disturbing comment in the video below:

"We have to put him [Jehovah] before a father, a mother, and even our children if they're disfellowshipped. And if the disfellowshipping of our family is not bad enough, loyalty to Jehovah may mean we even have to endure reproach. We may be hurting because, 'I can't, can't talk to my family member."
(time mark 2:41)


....................


What really amazes me is that the organization refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever for a member becoming "wicked." Yet it does refuse to, and even tells its members refuse to as well. From the video:

"Now we're gonna mention three things NOT to do, and two of them are games not to play.

The first one is, don't play the blame game. Resist self-blame. We may think that we're at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped . . it's because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.

Avoid the "if only games." "If only we would have preached more, if only I would have talked to them more." "If only we would have done more in the organization. If only. . .If only . . . Don't do that to ourselves
"


It's as if every mother, father, and JW preacher knew exactly how to get through to their children and other members, and actually did so. Think that's true? I don't. I've never heard a JW preacher speak, but I have heard a fair number of other Christian ministers, several of whom were so abysmal they couldn't convince a soaking wet dog to come in out of the rain. Thing is, from time to time we all fail in our relationships with others, and despite the JW philosophy, it isn't always the other guy's fault. Sometimes it's our own, in whole or in part. As willing to listen as a Jehovah's Witness may be it's only reasonable to acknowledge the possible failure of parents and preachers to get through. We don't all come with the same set of responsive abilities. Some of us simply have to be approached from another angle before the message sinks in. So for the sake of those Jehovah's Witnesses who are on the brink of becoming one of the "wicked," as well as their families, I think it would be nice if the organization changed their blame game and acknowledged the part it plays in the failures among its membership.


SO: Do you think I have a point here or not?

.

User avatar
We_Are_VENOM
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1632
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:33 am
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #191

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 8:56 am
I have no idea why you're making the comment when my comment was directed at JW and not at anything you were talking about.
Yeah, and that's all fine and dandy.

I felt it was worth chiming in to make the point that not all people's experience in the WTS organization is the same.

I know you guys like to present to the world that there is this perfect, euphoric, blissful environment behind the walls of the Kingdom Hall, but again, there are some who paint a different picture.

So yeah, I chimed in to make that point and I will continue to do so as needed.
Venni Vetti Vecci!!

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 494 times

Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #192

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #191]

So just trolling, gottcha.

Internet troll
In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. Wikipedia

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 22820
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 892 times
Been thanked: 1330 times
Contact:

Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #193

Post by JehovahsWitness »

... I believe I have been as clear and thorough as possible.


  • If you mean disassociated as in distancing oneself by stopping attending the church (without committing any disfellowshipping offense), that has been addressed.
  • If you mean disassociated as in presenting a formal written (or witnessed) request to withdraw from the church that too has been addressed.
  • If you are talking how long one is counted as a member after doing any of the above, that has been addressed
  • If you are talking about "informally" disfellowshipping and shunning someone, that too has been addressed

I have listed and indexed all relevant POSTS below.
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DISFELLOWSHIPPING/SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY

JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 10889
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1537 times
Been thanked: 435 times

Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #194

Post by onewithhim »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:06 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:38 pm It must fit with the other Scriptures. JW theology follows ALL Scriptures, not just cherry-picked ones.
Ok, so let me chime in for a bit on this..so, onewithhim...

“I am the bread of life.r 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”

Emphasis: "Anyone".

Can you please tell me who exactly is Jesus speaking of when he said "anyone"?
That would be anyone in mankind who will accept what he did and follow in his footsteps. But the actual celebration of the drinking wine and eating the bread is reserved for only the 144,000. The rest of us observe this celebration by supporting those brothers and sisters who are of the 144,000. We rejoice with them.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 10889
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1537 times
Been thanked: 435 times

Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #195

Post by onewithhim »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:15 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:49 am I take it we have finished with accusations that it is impossible to leave Jehovahs Witnesses without being shunned, since I have demonstrated that that is entirely possible.
No one said that it is impossible, we are saying that it happens whenever and wherever it happens...you and onewithhim almost seem hesitant to admit that it happens at all, and this is clearly not the case when you talk to exwitnesses.
I'm sorry, but ex-witnesses leave a lot out of their complaints. If you knew the whole story you might look at it differently. I've known several JWs who were disfellowshipped and became EX-JWs. Their mis-deeds were always down-played and they just squawked about how unfair the elders were to call them on the carpet. There are always two sides to the story, and you just have heard the unchristian exwitnesses' side of it.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 10889
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1537 times
Been thanked: 435 times

Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #196

Post by onewithhim »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:32 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:08 am I said nothing of the kind. "unofficial shunning*" is indeed something is discouraged
Ohhh, so since you said "nothing of the kind", then I won't be able to go back in the archives and successfully dig up some counter-factuals, will I? :D
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:08 am ; someone that has committed no disfellowshipping offense should not be treated as if he has.
The keyword is "should". Exwitnesses have given testimony stating that when they disassociated themselves from the organization, they were shunned by members of their families.
There is a difference between asking to be removed from the rolls of Jehovah's Witnesses, so that their name is no longer associated with the organization, and just stopping going to meetings. The former would be "shunned," but the latter would not.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6522
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 331 times
Contact:

Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #197

Post by tam »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:12 pm
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:06 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:38 pm It must fit with the other Scriptures. JW theology follows ALL Scriptures, not just cherry-picked ones.
Ok, so let me chime in for a bit on this..so, onewithhim...

“I am the bread of life.r 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”

Emphasis: "Anyone".

Can you please tell me who exactly is Jesus speaking of when he said "anyone"?
That would be anyone in mankind who will accept what he did and follow in his footsteps. But the actual celebration of the drinking wine and eating the bread is reserved for only the 144,000. The rest of us observe this celebration by supporting those brothers and sisters who are of the 144,000. We rejoice with them.
That is nothing like what Christ said (and says still).

ANYONE may EAT.

Not... 'the actual eating is reserved only for 144 000 people.'

ANYONE may eat.

Even 'UNLESS one eats his flesh and drinks his blood, one has NO LIFE IN THEM."


Those are the words of the One who has the words of eternal life; the one to whom God told us to listen; the one to who we must follow and listen.





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6522
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 331 times
Contact:

Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #198

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:38 am [Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #191]

So just trolling, gottcha.

Internet troll
In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. Wikipedia
It is not trolling to comment on someone else's post, no matter who that post was directed at. This is a public discussion, not a private one. The comment might not have been liked by some, but that doesn't mean it did not make its point.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 494 times

Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #199

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:44 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:38 am [Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #191]

So just trolling, gottcha.

Internet troll
In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. Wikipedia
It is not trolling to comment on someone else's post, no matter who that post was directed at. This is a public discussion, not a private one. The comment might not have been liked by some, but that doesn't mean it did not make its point.
His comment to my post was "inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, and an off-topic message in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception."
There is nothing in that definition about private conversations or commenting on someone else's post. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Posting on a comment is fine but, at least make it relevant to what I said. Making remarks about sexual abuse had zero to do with my post supporting what JW had said. viewtopic.php?p=1068626#p1068626

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6522
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 331 times
Contact:

Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #200

Post by tam »

Peace to you timothy,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #199]

If you think it was just a remark on sexual abuse, then you missed the point of the comment.

I digress...
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

Post Reply