"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

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Miles
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"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.


To Note: This OP has came about more as an eye-opener about Jehovah's Witnesses rather than any attempt at disparagement. Recognizing that every religion, denomination, and congregation has the right to operate as best it sees fit under its particular guidelines, my presentation and comments are strictly the result of surprise and befuddlement after watching the video, Shun Your Family.


I've heard of disfellowship among Jehovah's Witnesses before, but never realized the extent it goes to as a disloyalty test. So, what is disfellowship?

"Disfellowship:
To 'remove the wicked
man' or woman from
the congregation
Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.23 simplified edition"

"Jehovah's Witnesses are disfellowshipped for practices such as disagreeing with Watchtower doctrine, smoking or fornication, if judged by the congregation elders as unrepentant. A disfellowshipped person is to be shunned by all family and friends, usually for the remainder of their life, and go through tremendous emotional suffering. Whilst Scriptural precedence limits association with wrongdoers, Watchtower application of disfellowshipping seriously deviates from Bible guidelines.
source


A particularly disturbing comment in the video below:

"We have to put him [Jehovah] before a father, a mother, and even our children if they're disfellowshipped. And if the disfellowshipping of our family is not bad enough, loyalty to Jehovah may mean we even have to endure reproach. We may be hurting because, 'I can't, can't talk to my family member."
(time mark 2:41)


....................


What really amazes me is that the organization refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever for a member becoming "wicked." Yet it does refuse to, and even tells its members refuse to as well. From the video:

"Now we're gonna mention three things NOT to do, and two of them are games not to play.

The first one is, don't play the blame game. Resist self-blame. We may think that we're at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped . . it's because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.

Avoid the "if only games." "If only we would have preached more, if only I would have talked to them more." "If only we would have done more in the organization. If only. . .If only . . . Don't do that to ourselves
"


It's as if every mother, father, and JW preacher knew exactly how to get through to their children and other members, and actually did so. Think that's true? I don't. I've never heard a JW preacher speak, but I have heard a fair number of other Christian ministers, several of whom were so abysmal they couldn't convince a soaking wet dog to come in out of the rain. Thing is, from time to time we all fail in our relationships with others, and despite the JW philosophy, it isn't always the other guy's fault. Sometimes it's our own, in whole or in part. As willing to listen as a Jehovah's Witness may be it's only reasonable to acknowledge the possible failure of parents and preachers to get through. We don't all come with the same set of responsive abilities. Some of us simply have to be approached from another angle before the message sinks in. So for the sake of those Jehovah's Witnesses who are on the brink of becoming one of the "wicked," as well as their families, I think it would be nice if the organization changed their blame game and acknowledged the part it plays in the failures among its membership.


SO: Do you think I have a point here or not?

.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #161

Post by onewithhim »

tam wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:28 pm Peace again to you,
onewithhim wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:07 pm
tam wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:02 pm Peace again to you,
[Replying to onewithhim in post #157]

I found a religion that agrees with our Lord. I studied for a long time to find out just what our Lord was teaching, and lo-and-behold, the JWs did just that.
I don't know how you can make that statement in light of the following:


If Christ says anyone may eat and drink of His flesh and blood... and a religion says 'no, only some may eat and drink of His flesh and blood'... well, I know who I will listen to.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
OK I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Where does Christ say that anyone may eat and drink of his flesh and blood?
Thank you. John 6

“I am the bread of life.r 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”

Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
OK. I see where you get this. I'm not going to convince you otherwise.....but I believe that he was talking to and about those people that would be truly "in union with" him as the ruling class of thousands that would be with him in heaven. He was primarily speaking to them at that time. I know that you do not believe that there will be 144,000 in heaven ruling over the earth, so you don't need to tell me again. I'm just saying that we will have to agree to disagree.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #162

Post by tam »

Peace again to you,
onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:12 pm
tam wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:28 pm Peace again to you,
onewithhim wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:07 pm
tam wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:02 pm Peace again to you,
[Replying to onewithhim in post #157]

I found a religion that agrees with our Lord. I studied for a long time to find out just what our Lord was teaching, and lo-and-behold, the JWs did just that.
I don't know how you can make that statement in light of the following:


If Christ says anyone may eat and drink of His flesh and blood... and a religion says 'no, only some may eat and drink of His flesh and blood'... well, I know who I will listen to.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
OK I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Where does Christ say that anyone may eat and drink of his flesh and blood?
Thank you. John 6

“I am the bread of life.r 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”

Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
OK. I see where you get this. I'm not going to convince you otherwise.....but I believe that he was talking to and about those people that would be truly "in union with" him as the ruling class of thousands that would be with him in heaven. He was primarily speaking to them at that time.



Okay... but He said anyone.

Regardless of what you believe or what I believe, Christ - the Truth, the Life, the Light - said anyone.
I know that you do not believe that there will be 144,000 in heaven ruling over the earth, so you don't need to tell me again. I'm just saying that we will have to agree to disagree.
We can certainly agree or disagree or agree to disagree (and we can do so peacefully). But what we agree with is not what makes something true, as I hope you understand. If Christ teaches it, then we can know it is true.


Peace again to you.
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #163

Post by onewithhim »


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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #164

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:12 pm OK. I see where you get this. I'm not going to convince you otherwise.....but I believe that he was talking to and about those people that would be truly "in union with" him as the ruling class of thousands that would be with him in heaven. He was primarily speaking to them at that time. I know that you do not believe that there will be 144,000 in heaven ruling over the earth, so you don't need to tell me again. I'm just saying that we will have to agree to disagree.
So no matter what Jesus said, onewithhim, it absolutely must fit JW theology...doesn't it?

SMH.
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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #165

Post by JehovahsWitness »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:24 pm
So no matter what Jesus said, onewithhim, it absolutely must fit JW theology...doesn't it?
We believe our theology agrees entirely with what Jesus taught and, returning to the OP anyone that disagrees is free to leave any time (or not join us in the first place), without fear of being shunned. What we don't tolerate is those that attempt to STAY while not confirming to bible standards. There is nothing shocking in this, rather it is a code of conduct is entirely reasonable for any organisation that wishes to maintain its internal integrity.




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DISFELLOWSHIPPING/SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #166

Post by tam »

Peace again to you all,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:17 am
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:24 pm
So no matter what Jesus said, onewithhim, it absolutely must fit JW theology...doesn't it?
We believe our theology agrees entirely with what Jesus taught and,
So says most everyone in most every sect of Christendom. Your justifications for your theology - even when it contradicts Christ's direct words - are no different than their justifications for their theology.

returning to the OP anyone that disagrees is free to leave any time (or not join us in the first place), without fear of being shunned.
That (the bold) is absolutely not true. People are shunned for leaving all the time, even when it is not an "official" rule (though it is often encouraged) - so there ABSOLUTELY IS FEAR of being shunned if someone wishes to leave (who has been baptized). A person can SOMETIMES avoid that IF they LIE to everyone for the next six months (or more), if they HIDE their reasons, if they can AVOID the ELDERS coming around to ask them why they aren't attending.


Some people can't do that (for various reasons, including that they wish to share - out of love - what is true). It is hypocrisy that a religion that teaches people NOT to lie, then turns around and punishes them for being honest.
What we don't tolerate is those that attempt to STAY while not confirming to bible standards.


"Bible standards" according to a sect in Christendom.

But not according to Christ, not even in what He is recorded to have said.
There is nothing shocking in this, rather it is a code of conduct is entirely reasonable for any organisation that wishes to maintain its internal integrity.
So that appearances are more important than mercy, forgiveness, love, even truth. You can try and deny that, but earlier you said that the reason for the 'six month rule' is to protect the 'clean' reputation of the organization.

viewtopic.php?p=1066698#p1066698



Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #167

Post by onewithhim »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:24 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:12 pm OK. I see where you get this. I'm not going to convince you otherwise.....but I believe that he was talking to and about those people that would be truly "in union with" him as the ruling class of thousands that would be with him in heaven. He was primarily speaking to them at that time. I know that you do not believe that there will be 144,000 in heaven ruling over the earth, so you don't need to tell me again. I'm just saying that we will have to agree to disagree.
So no matter what Jesus said, onewithhim, it absolutely must fit JW theology...doesn't it?

SMH.
It must fit with the other Scriptures. JW theology follows ALL Scriptures, not just cherry-picked ones.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #168

Post by onewithhim »

tam wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:01 pm Peace again to you all,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:17 am
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:24 pm
So no matter what Jesus said, onewithhim, it absolutely must fit JW theology...doesn't it?
We believe our theology agrees entirely with what Jesus taught and,
So says most everyone in most every sect of Christendom.


tammy
But any overview of what most every sect of Christendom DOES shows us that they are NOT following Jesus' teachings. They ALL fail in one or more issues. Most of them will go to war, won't they? Jesus said to LOVE our enemies (Matthew 5:44). Jesus said to be NO PART of the world. (John 17:16) Most sects of Christendom are involved in politics. Jesus said we must love his Father and sanctify His name (Matthew 6:9,10; Matthew 22:37). Do ANY religions do this? There is much more, but you can eliminate religious sects from being Christ's followers by applying just the differences I have listed above.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #169

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:52 pm
tam wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:01 pm Peace again to you all,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:17 am
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:24 pm
So no matter what Jesus said, onewithhim, it absolutely must fit JW theology...doesn't it?
We believe our theology agrees entirely with what Jesus taught and,
So says most everyone in most every sect of Christendom.


tammy
But any overview of what most every sect of Christendom DOES shows us that they are NOT following Jesus' teachings.


As does an overview of your religion (see above and previous posts).
They ALL fail in one or more issues.


As does yours.
Most of them will go to war, won't they? Jesus said to LOVE our enemies (Matthew 5:44). Jesus said to be NO PART of the world. (John 17:16)
Religion is also part of this world.

(and there are other sects that do not go to war)
Most sects of Christendom are involved in politics. Jesus said we must love his Father and sanctify His name (Matthew 6:9,10; Matthew 22:37). Do ANY religions do this? There is much more, but you can eliminate religious sects from being Christ's followers by applying just the differences I have listed above.
Including your own.

(and there are other sects not involved in politics)


Peace again.
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #170

Post by onewithhim »

tam wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:09 pm Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:52 pm
tam wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:01 pm Peace again to you all,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:17 am
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:24 pm
So no matter what Jesus said, onewithhim, it absolutely must fit JW theology...doesn't it?
We believe our theology agrees entirely with what Jesus taught and,
So says most everyone in most every sect of Christendom.


tammy
But any overview of what most every sect of Christendom DOES shows us that they are NOT following Jesus' teachings.


As does an overview of your religion (see above and previous posts).
They ALL fail in one or more issues.


As does yours.
Most of them will go to war, won't they? Jesus said to LOVE our enemies (Matthew 5:44). Jesus said to be NO PART of the world. (John 17:16)
Religion is also part of this world.

(and there are other sects that do not go to war)
Most sects of Christendom are involved in politics. Jesus said we must love his Father and sanctify His name (Matthew 6:9,10; Matthew 22:37). Do ANY religions do this? There is much more, but you can eliminate religious sects from being Christ's followers by applying just the differences I have listed above.
Including your own.

(and there are other sects not involved in politics)


Peace again.
What are the sects that don't join their nation's army? What are the religions that are not part of the world and do not get involved in politics? What are the religions that love Jehovah and use His name consistently, thereby honoring Jesus' teaching at Matthew 22:37 and John 17:6,26?

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