Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

[Wootah]

https://biblehub.com/luke/20-38.htm

37Even Moses demonstrates that the dead are raised, in the passage about the burning bush. For he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”

Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive or dead right now?

[Wootah]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #41]

Whether or not an unrighteous person is completely forgotten from His memory or not is not stated word for word in the Bible. Regardless, if a Jehovah says a person is annihilated then they are someone we will never have to worry about living again, with a human body or in a spirit body.

So you don't actually know if anyone is annihilated or not or are you not willing to admit the contradiction here?

You said earlier: They are asleep in death, waiting to hear the voice of their master to wake them.

If the righteous and the unrighteous are asleep in death and being asleep in death is considered annihilated how is that just that God treats them both the same? While the righteous are asleep (annihilated) how is God the God of the living?

Also I might as well ask:

In Luke 23:42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”Is the thief on the cross in paradise?

How is being asleep in the memory banks of God paradise? What's paradise to you? (Actually most people do regard sleep as paradise <- joke btw).

[Diagoras]

And I've learned (on this site), that Jehovahs Witnesses defer to their Governing Body for interpretations.

I, being a Jehovah's Witness, did not defer to a GB interpretation. I asked that you read Ecc chapter 9 and then asked what you thought it said about the condition of the dead.
viewtopic.php?p=1047571#p1047571

Read Ecc chapter 9 and then you tell me if dead people are aware of what is happening to them. Unlike others on this thread, I'm not giving you an interpretation of any sort. I'm not asking you to conjure an interpretation either. I'm asking for a simple reading comprehension exercise in exegesis, using your own reasoning skills by reading a chapter in the Bible. You will see many others using eisegesis. If you'd like a detailed explanation of the two go here, https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html it does a really good job two ways to approach reading the Bible. And this is not a link to a GB explanation of exegesis and eisegesis.

That was a very useful link, thanks. I thought I broadly knew the definition of exegesis but hadn't realised it applied mostly to Scripture. And I'd never heard of eisegesis. I do appreciate you putting me onto this.

To respond to your question or suggestion, I read Ecclesiastes 9 as saying death is the ultimate fate for every person ("the great equaliser"), you should "live life", and that the dead experience nothing. The mention of Sheol suggests a 'place of non-being'. That fits well with my own beliefs as a scientific naturalist.

The chapter is (in my opinion) an example of beauty and wisdom in the Bible, and an encouragement to be realistic, not pessimistic.

Finally, I'd never realised you were a Jehovahs Witness. I should properly have stated "Jehovahs Witnesses may defer to their Governing Body for interpretations.", as I didn't intend to imply that all JW's always deferred.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to William in post #37]
Spirits did not arise for people to see when the earthquake shook the tombs outside of Jerusalem at Jesus' death. The quake opened up many tombs and dead bodies were thrown up out of their graves. This is what people saw who were passing by, and they went into the city to report it.

[William]

[Replying to William in post #37]
Spirits did not arise for people to see when the earthquake shook the tombs outside of Jerusalem at Jesus' death. The quake opened up many tombs and dead bodies were thrown up out of their graves. This is what people saw who were passing by, and they went into the city to report it.

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

So - just a case of being very badly written then? Thanks for the heads up.

Obviously the author should have written it as follows, to accommodate the actual thing which happened.

"And the graves were opened; and many dead bodies of the saints were thrown up out of their graves, and people on their way to the holy city saw the dead bodies as they passed by, and that is what they reported."

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #29]

JW, Eloi, 2Tim,

If God cannot forget things and being in God's memory banks is to be alive (even if asleep) then how can anyone be annihilated?

Being in memory banks is NOT to be alive, it is to be remembered. They do not exist but God holds a perfect memory of them with a view to bringing them back to life. The wicked are "annihilated"* in that God will never ACT on any memory he has of their former existence. The wicked are not "alive in his memory" they are dead to him!

[ * ] NOTE: "ANNIHILATION" is not a term frequently employed by Jehovahs Witnesses when speaking of the condition of the dead. The destruction/annihilation of the wicked is a future event but Jesus indicated that certain ones in his day faced being condemned to GEHENNA (death* without any hope of a resurrection). It would therefore not be inappropriate to speak of those judged incorrigibly wicked by God as having been "annihalated".

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to William in post #37]
Spirits did not arise for people to see when the earthquake shook the tombs outside of Jerusalem at Jesus' death. The quake opened up many tombs and dead bodies were thrown up out of their graves. This is what people saw who were passing by, and they went into the city to report it.

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose

Does the word SPIRIT appear in this passage?

Was there a mass resurrection on the day Jesus died [Mat 27:51-3]?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 33#p775533





JW

To read more please go to other posts related to...

LIFE, THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...RESURRECTION

[William]

[Replying to William in post #37]
Spirits did not arise for people to see when the earthquake shook the tombs outside of Jerusalem at Jesus' death. The quake opened up many tombs and dead bodies were thrown up out of their graves. This is what people saw who were passing by, and they went into the city to report it.

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose

Does the word SPIRIT appear in this passage?

No. Why do you ask?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to William in post #37]
Spirits did not arise for people to see when the earthquake shook the tombs outside of Jerusalem at Jesus' death. The quake opened up many tombs and dead bodies were thrown up out of their graves. This is what people saw who were passing by, and they went into the city to report it.

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose

Does the word SPIRIT appear in this passage?

No. Why do you ask?

Because you seem to be suggesting that the scripture refers to the spirits of the dead being raised back to life which it does not. Indeed it has nothjng to do with a resurrection of any kind.


If that'is not what you are suggesting then I have no issue with your post.


Have a great day,



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Also I might as well ask:

In Luke 23:42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Is the thief on the cross in paradise?

No, the thief is not in paradise, he's dead. Metaphorically the bible likens death to sleep in that people are entirely unawre of anything that is happening while they are dead. Dead people are not in paradise, they are not anywhere, they don't exist.

How is being asleep in the memory banks of God paradise?

He's not in paradise.... he's DEAD . (See above)

[JehovahsWitness]

What's paradise to you?

PARADISE which comes from the ancient word for garden, is a reference to the earth restored to the original garden-like conditions that existed in EDEN. Jehovahs Witnesses use the expression "paradise" "paradise earth" "new world" or "the new system". All of which refer to this our present planet earth cleaned up of pollution (and freed of war and all suffering) under God's government.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS



RELATED POSTS

What is PARADISE in Jehovah's Witness terminology?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 32#p855832

What is being refered to when the bible speaks about a PARADISE?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 32#p855832

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE KINGDOM, THE MILLENIUM and ...THE EARTHLY PARADISE