How to get into the Kingdom of heaven?

[Wootah]

Matthew 5 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Assuming Jesus is speaking truthfully. How does anyone get into heaven?

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 30 by Yehwahismywitness]

I humbly disagree based on much research, consider Paul truly has no messenger statements of Jesus. That is purpose of Apostle he is suppose to be messenger of Jesus. Secondly, consider he does not have two witnesses, no water baptism and after resurrection Jesus appeared in flesh. He said if any man says here is Jesus do not believe it.

Personally will not mix testimony of Jesus he is sole teacher and anything that disagrees cast it out. The beginning of how to get to the Kingdom search for righteousness.

I'm not quite certain what a "messenger statement" would be, so maybe before I launch into an answer based on misunderstanding what you are saying, you could clarify that for me.

I will say that while I agree with Wootah, Paul's theology" was Jesus' theology, and that Paul most definitely taught the doctrines of Christ, I am fairly certain we would disagree on what those doctrines might be.

And I am curious, if you find a fairly large part of the book that one might call, the words of God, suspect, why would you believe any part of it at all? Is your God so powerless as to lose control of His Book?

Soj

[Yahwehismywitness]

I'm not quite certain what a "messenger statement" would be, so maybe before I launch into an answer based on misunderstanding what you are saying, you could clarify that for me.

Paul admitted writing his own words. He that speakest of himself seekest his own glory: John 7:18

Paul elevated his own gospel which was "about" his Jesus. But had none of Yeshua's teachings:
He said to follow his gospel and him. Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel I call upon you, therefore, become ye followers of me.

Paul claimed that his spirit could be with believers in other places. Much like the Holy Spirit:

3 For my part, even though I am not physically present,I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. (1 Cor. 5:3-5 NIV.)

Paul condemned fellowship with any that didn't adhere to his doctrine:

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us.(2 Thess 3:6 NIV.)

NO record of Saul/Paul's water baptism. Yeshua said to lay down cross and follow him that means water baptism.

Messenger statements are those recorded in red of Yeshua. An apostle sole duty is too be a messenger of Yeshua his words.

[brianbbs67]

Matthew 5 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Assuming Jesus is speaking truthfully. How does anyone get into heaven?

Well, the law was the rules for us in this world. It led not into salvation. Wasn't meant to lead there. It was just the code of conduct based on the decalogue. (which all Israel heard and asked to hear no more than that)

That said, Jesus is saying if you teach and do the law, you will be great. If you don't, you are least or worse. Jesus also explained that the Pharisees taught correctly but did not live correctly. So, if you follow Jesus' example and teach and practice the same you are golden.

[myth-one.com]

Matthew 5 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Assuming Jesus is speaking truthfully. How does anyone get into heaven?

Well, the law was the rules for us in this world. It led not into salvation. Wasn't meant to lead there. It was just the code of conduct based on the decalogue. (which all Israel heard and asked to hear no more than that)

That said, Jesus is saying if you teach and do the law, you will be great. If you don't, you are least or worse. Jesus also explained that the Pharisees taught correctly but did not live correctly. So, if you follow Jesus' example and teach and practice the same you are golden.

Good works earned one salvation under the Old Testament.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 20 by Checkpoint]

Thank you for addressing the points I was trying to make, instead of simply pointing to verses were blood was indicated.

But it is noteworthy that both Jesus and Hosea did not say (if they were indeed calling people to add interior observance to blood ritual) "I desire mercy in addition to sacrifice". No on the contrary, they both said "I desire mercy not sacrifice".

Hello EJ, I have finally got back to you as promised, to look at some mercy/sacrifice verses a little more closely.

Firstly, Hosea in its immediate context.

Hosea 6:

4 “What can I do with you, Ephraim?
What can I do with you, Judah?
Your love is like the morning mist,
like the early dew that disappears.
5 Therefore I cut you in pieces with My prophets,
I killed you with the words of My mouth—
then my judgments go forth like the sun.

6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

7 As at Adam, b they have broken the covenant;
they were unfaithful to me there.
8 Gilead is a city of evildoers,
stained with footprints of blood.

I think in context this speaks for itself.

And so, really, does how Jesus uses it to illustrate basically the same point.

What do you now have to say on this matter?

Matthew 9:
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.�

Matthew 12:

3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?
4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests.

5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?
6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.

7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.
8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.�

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 24 by Adstar]

Good....I commend you for reasoning and truly thinking on a matter. I have to point out, though, that John didn't physically go to heaven. It says that an angel from Jesus whom he "sent" down to earth, bore witness to the word God gave to Jesus. I believe that John received all of Revelation in VISIONS. As a physical man, John couldn't have survived heaven. It is the realm where spirit persons live, and where God (also a spirit Person) lives, and from whence all things were created, including the sun and stars (which would burn up any physical matter immediately, so so indeed would any nearness to the Creator of the stars by a human).


.

Well John in the first chapter said He was ""in the spirit"" so he never claimed and i am not claiming He went to heaven in his body..

Revelation 1: {9} I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. {10} I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

OK, but I don't believe that he was actually in heaven "in the spirit" either. He was seeing things OF the spirits, in visions, as he remained on the earth. Those things he saw were not literally on Earth of course, nor were they in heaven either. They were all in visions that John was able to see by the grace of God. What would have been the point of John being in heaven at all, when most of those things he saw weren't in heaven either? A horrible beast coming out of the sea; locusts with tails like scorpions and faces like men; the "four horsemen of the Apocalypse," and so forth.


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[onewithhim]

Paul's theology" was Jesus' theology, and Paul went to great lengths to broadcast the truth of Jesus' position as the Messiah, far and wide. After all, the Father was the One who appointed and anointed His Son and sent him into the world to save mankind. If the Father said it, Paul acted in accordance with it.

Doesn't Jesus teach that he saves mankind from death in John chapter 3?

Simply, we are to accept Jesus' blood atonement, and THEN we must behave in the ways he spells out for us throughout his ministry. We must be merciful, peacemakers, mild-tempered, etc., but this follows accepting his gift of life.

"The Son of man came...to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many." (Matt.20:28)

Out of the mouth of Jesus.

I humbly disagree based on much research, consider Paul truly has no messenger statements of Jesus. That is purpose of Apostle he is suppose to be messenger of Jesus. Secondly, consider he does not have two witnesses, no water baptism and after resurrection Jesus appeared in flesh. He said if any man says here is Jesus do not believe it.

Personally will not mix testimony of Jesus he is sole teacher and anything that disagrees cast it out. The beginning of how to get to the Kingdom search for righteousness.

What is your basis for "humbly disagreeing?" What research that you have done has uncovered something else besides what I wrote above? Your post is unclear. Could you reiterate?


.

[onewithhim]

I'm not quite certain what a "messenger statement" would be, so maybe before I launch into an answer based on misunderstanding what you are saying, you could clarify that for me.

Paul admitted writing his own words. He that speakest of himself seekest his own glory: John 7:18

Paul elevated his own gospel which was "about" his Jesus. But had none of Yeshua's teachings:
He said to follow his gospel and him. Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel I call upon you, therefore, become ye followers of me.

Paul claimed that his spirit could be with believers in other places. Much like the Holy Spirit:

3 For my part, even though I am not physically present,I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. (1 Cor. 5:3-5 NIV.)

Paul condemned fellowship with any that didn't adhere to his doctrine:

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us.(2 Thess 3:6 NIV.)

NO record of Saul/Paul's water baptism. Yeshua said to lay down cross and follow him that means water baptism.

Messenger statements are those recorded in red of Yeshua. An apostle sole duty is too be a messenger of Yeshua his words.

I have never seen before an understanding of the scriptures as you understand them. Paul didn't mean that he had a spirit equal to God's Holy Spirit, which also was in Christ. When Paul spoke of his being with his friends "in spirit," he was meaning exactly what we would say today if we were invited to a party but we couldn't go and instead said to our friends, "I will be with you 'in spirit.' " What do we mean? That we will be thinking about them, and wish we could be there.

When he said to not associate with anyone who did not teach the truth that Jesus taught and that Paul was also teaching, he was speaking in harmony with Jesus' sayings. Jesus also knew that there is only one way to worship God...one faith, one baptism. How you can say that Paul contradicted Jesus, I can't imagine.

Paul's teaching was what Jesus taught. One scholar has written: "We cannot deny that Paul's letters contain echoes of the 'instructions' of the Lord, whatever their precise frequency proves to be. The point is simple: the NT letters demonstrably contain traces of such teachings." (The Birth of Christianity/The First Twenty Years by Paul Barnett, p. 120.)

I will list the similarities between Paul's teaching and Jesus' teaching in a following post.



.

[onewithhim]

Paul's writing (I Thessalonians):

"For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the appearing (parousia) of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first." (ch.4:15-16)

Jesus' teaching (Matthew):

"...he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds." (ch.24:31)


Paul:

"Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will always be with the Lord." (4:17)

Jesus:

"As the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. But at midnight there was a cry, 'Behold the bridegroom! Come, let us meet him.' Then all those maidens arose and trimmed their lamps." (Matt.25:5-7)


Paul:

"For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. When people say, 'There is peace and security,' then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. But you are not in the darkness, brothers, for the day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all sons of light and sons of the day; we are not of the night or of the darkness. So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober." (I Thess. 5:3-7)

Jesus:

"Watch, therefore, for you do not know on what day uour Lord is coming. But know this, that if the householder had known what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have watched and not let his house be broken into." (Matt. 24:42-43)

"But take heed to yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness...and that day come upon you suddenly like a snare...but warch at all times, praying that you may have the strength to escape all these things that will take place, and to stand before the Son of man." (Luke 21:34-36)


The author comments: "In common here are: the sudden appearance of the Lord, as in the parable of the thief; the trumpet call signaling the gathering of the elect; the warning for watchfulness, as in the parable of sleeping and waking; and the promise that the godly ones will 'meet' the Lord, as in the parable of the virgins. The connection are real."


There are three more pages with the same comparisons. They show further how Paul teaches what Jesus said. If there are still objections to that idea, I will post more of these comparisons.


(The Birth of Christianity, pp.121,122)

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 37 by onewithhim]

will list the similarities between Paul's teaching and Jesus' teaching in a following post.

Just thought to add this verse...

1 Corinthians 11:1

Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.