Are you a creationist?

[Wootah]

Hi all,

The thing about creation is that we do it every moment.

- I look at a lump of matter and make it into my wife every day of my marriage.

- Apparently, there is a bunch of atoms that I recognise every day how to get back to and I call it my home.

The day you are not a creationist, you likely have lost your mind.

Are you a creationist? Thoughts?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #29]

What does creators by analogy mean?

For instance God is omnipotent but we, made in the image of God, do have power.

Its just a scale or spectrum.

So because God creates from nothing doesn't mean we dont create at all.

The point is again, missed: the analogy, Man creates, a creator -god (if it existed) also creates. Analogy valid. What is not valid is that it in any way validated the existence of a creator -god, never mind the god of any particular religion.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #29]

What does creators by analogy mean?

For instance God is omnipotent but we, made in the image of God, do have power.

Its just a scale or spectrum.

So because God creates from nothing doesn't mean we dont create at all.

It means that what we are doing is not univocal or equivocal but analogical. God creates from nothing. Only God can do that. What we do is thus not univocal when we create from matter because it is not the same thing, yet it is not equivocal because it is not totally different, so it is analogical.

Like when I love my mother and I love my wife. Love here is not univocal for I do not mean that I love my mother exactly like I love my wife, but it is not equivocal either, for I do not mean two totally different things by love here. So I mean it analogical. It is also not a metaphor. I mean literally that I love both my mother and my wife.

Now, it is not just a scale or spectrum issue. What God is doing is not what we are doing. It is not like if we try hard enough or if we become powerful enough we will one day create from nothing.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #29]

What does creators by analogy mean?

For instance God is omnipotent but we, made in the image of God, do have power.

Its just a scale or spectrum.

So because God creates from nothing doesn't mean we dont create at all.

It means that what we are doing is not univocal or equivocal but analogical. God creates from nothing. Only God can do that. What we do is thus not univocal when we create from matter because it is not the same thing, yet it is not equivocal because it is not totally different, so it is analogical.

Like when I love my mother and I love my wife. Love here is not univocal for I do not mean that I love my mother exactly like I love my wife, but it is not equivocal either, for I do not mean two totally different things by love here. So I mean it analogical. It is also not a metaphor. I mean literally that I love both my mother and my wife.

Now, it is not just a scale or spectrum issue. What God is doing is not what we are doing. It is not like if we try hard enough or if we become powerful enough we will one day create from nothing.

The thinking here is all cockeyed, in that it is all argument within the Theological box which is, succinctly, 'lets assume First that God is real". Then the discussion is comprehensible. otherwise it is illogical, pointless and angels dancing on the head of a pin.


Therefore, Gentlemen, having established that it is mere echo -chamber stuff and does not do a single, solitary, thing by way of validating any god, let alone Jesusgod, I shall leave you to it.

[Wootah]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #33]

Ironically AFG is presenting the biggest challenge in this thread. I am trying to have a general we're all creationists thread and the only challenge to that is AFGs response.

[Wootah]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #29]

What does creators by analogy mean?

For instance God is omnipotent but we, made in the image of God, do have power.

Its just a scale or spectrum.

So because God creates from nothing doesn't mean we dont create at all.

It means that what we are doing is not univocal or equivocal but analogical. God creates from nothing. Only God can do that. What we do is thus not univocal when we create from matter because it is not the same thing, yet it is not equivocal because it is not totally different, so it is analogical.

Like when I love my mother and I love my wife. Love here is not univocal for I do not mean that I love my mother exactly like I love my wife, but it is not equivocal either, for I do not mean two totally different things by love here. So I mean it analogical. It is also not a metaphor. I mean literally that I love both my mother and my wife.

Now, it is not just a scale or spectrum issue. What God is doing is not what we are doing. It is not like if we try hard enough or if we become powerful enough we will one day create from nothing.

I would agree there are things God can do that we can never do. So are you arguing that we should only use the word create for God?

Apart from sinner I suspect most words only apply to God if we follow that line of thinking.

Instead I would propose you are identifying God's maximal, omni, nature. We create, God omnicreates.

I think at best we are in word games territory. Show me that your words make a difference to the topic. I still don't see how they do.

If someone takes some matter and rearranges it in a way that nature almost certainly couldn't then I think calling them a creator is quite natural.

On a deeper level there is almost no rational connection between ourselves and matter apart from what we invent or imagine is the relationship. That is a kind of creating from nothing.

God created the animals but Adam named them. It was an amazing thing, an act of love and inviting Adam to be co-creator. Imagine discovering a star or inventing something and letting someone else name it.

Anyway all said above - I take your point. God creates, we make but I still think it is word games. Let's find out. What is something you say humans can do?

[brunumb]

God creates from nothing. Only God can do that.

Sure. When you invent a god that can do anything, then that god can do anything. Doesn't mean that there really is a god that can do anything.

[Wootah]

God creates from nothing. Only God can do that.

Sure. When you invent a god that can do anything, then that god can do anything. Doesn't mean that there really is a god that can do anything.

Of course you can disengage or engage find the contradiction and show the logic is wrong.

[Diagoras]

I think at best we are in word games territory.

Agreed on the first page.

If someone takes some matter and rearranges it in a way that nature almost certainly couldn't then I think calling them a creator is quite natural.

Agreed on the first page.

On a deeper level there is almost no rational connection between ourselves and matter apart from what we invent or imagine is the relationship.

We’re made of matter.

That is a kind of creating from nothing.

Making up nonsense is certainly a ‘kind of creating’.

God created the animals but Adam named them.

Is this true, though? Here’s some that Adam might have missed:
https://www.discoverwildlife.com/news/n ... this-year/

[Clownboat]

Everything that was created has an intelligent designer.

Tell that to the snowflakes. Just chemicals reacting to their properties. No intelligence needed.

[Wootah]

Everything that was created has an intelligent designer.

Tell that to the snowflakes. Just chemicals reacting to their properties. No intelligence needed.

What snowflakes? The ones you named and labelled and so created?