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NJBUpright in all that he does, Yahweh acts only in faithful love. He is close to all who call upon him, all who call on him from the heart.
NJBJesus said: I am the Way; I am Truth and Life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
First thanks for the response,Elijah John wrote:I recieved a revelation of Jesus Christ saying "they have it all wrong, I am not God."101G wrote:ERROR on your Part, if you think this is circular reasoning, take the Revelation 1:1 testElijah John wrote: [Replying to post 11 by 101G]
That is circular reasoning. You are equating Jesus with the Creator spoken of in the Hebrew Bible (OT) based on a NT claim.
The verse you cite from the OT refers to Jehovah (LORD) not Jesus.
Where, in the Hebrew Bible is it ever taught that the Messiah created the Universe?
On the contrary:
Isaiah 45.18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it;...
Again, the LORD refers to Yahweh/Jehovah, not Jesus. Not the Messiah.
So regarding John's claim this verse certainly seems to apply:
Proverbs 30.6To his words make no addition, lest he reprove you and account you a liar.
Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John".
who sent his angel to John, but read Revelation 22:6 first.
now was it the LORD whom you refers to Yahweh/Jehovah, or the Lord Jesus. remember read Revelation 22:6 also.
and when you finish, tell us who sent "HIS" angel.
I'll be waiting for your reply.
Peace In Christ Yeshua.
Not buying it? I don't blame you. I recieved no such revelation. I could claim it, but you wouldn't believe it and I wouldn't blame you.
What makes John's claim any more valid than mine? The popularity or the antiquity of a claim does not establish the truth of the matter.
Especially when those claims contradict Jesus own Bible, the Hebrew Bible. That is the "consitition" of Judaism and Christianity.
John's(both Johns) claims are "unconsititional".
Notice, that even NT Evangelists appealed to the Hebrew Bible to establish the veracity of their claim that Jesus was the Messiah, or that he was the Son of God. Only John attempted to make the fuzzy claim that he was God Himself.
to hear the TRUTH.
What I find contradictory is that John's Jesus interjects himself between God and humans, and insists that he (Jesus) is the only way to God.EastwardTraveler wrote: I am curious as to what do you find contradicting. There are a couple of angles I believe you might be going for so can you explain further for me? Just a little confused on original post.
If Jesus was using the temple as a template for this claim, he would have said, "Stay away from me except that one man who can approach. The rest of you men stay back. You women stay behind the men. All of you who aren't of the same ethnic background as I, stay way back behind the women."tam wrote:
When Christ said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me"... He was speaking the truth, the same truth that God already gave in the example and design of the Temple.
I would say that to "call on" Jehovah means to appeal to him according to his standards and requirements. Those that lived before the Christian era could not call on Jehovah in Jesus name as they did not know it yet, so He did not reqiure them to do so. However, since the ransom provides the basis for ALL relationships with God for sinful humans (sin creates a barrier between God who is entirely pure and imperfect humans who are impure), it's value must have been applied retrospectively. In other words God had such confidence in Jesus and the ransom he would provide he credited it's value to his faithful servants and (those that appeal to Him in sincerity) in advanced.Elijah John wrote: Psalm 145.17-18
Upright in all that he does, Yahweh acts only in faithful love. He is close to all who call upon him, all who call on him from the heart.Jesus said: I am the Way; I am Truth and Life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
For debate: How can one reconcile these two seemingly contradictory verses.
One could look at it that way. But another way to see it is that the "retrospective" merits of Christ's ransom projected backward is more like revisionism, and reading something into the Hebrew Bible that is just not there. The plain meaning? Close is close. David says YHVH is close to all who call on Him. Just like "everyone who calls upon the name of YHVH will be delivered. (or saved).JehovahsWitness wrote:I would say that to "call on" Jehovah means to appeal to him according to his standards and requirements. Those that lived before the Christian era could not call on Jehovah in Jesus name as they did not know it yet, so He did not reqiure them to do so. However, since the ransom provides the basis for ALL relationships with God for sinful humans (sin creates a barrier between God who is entirely pure and imperfect humans who are impure), it's value must have been applied retrospectively. In other words God had such confidence in Jesus and the ransom he would provide he credited it's value to his faithful servants and (those that appeal to Him in sincerity) in advanced.Elijah John wrote: Psalm 145.17-18
Upright in all that he does, Yahweh acts only in faithful love. He is close to all who call upon him, all who call on him from the heart.Jesus said: I am the Way; I am Truth and Life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
For debate: How can one reconcile these two seemingly contradictory verses.
They still are simple. YHVH forgives the repentant, however they come to Him. Pray from the heart and grab His attention and grace.Elijah John wrote:One could look at it that way. But another way to see it is that the "retrospective" merits of Christ's ransom projected backward is more like revisionism, and reading something into the Hebrew Bible that is just not there. The plain meaning? Close is close. David says YHVH is close to all who call on Him. Just like "everyone who calls upon the name of YHVH will be delivered. (or saved).JehovahsWitness wrote:I would say that to "call on" Jehovah means to appeal to him according to his standards and requirements. Those that lived before the Christian era could not call on Jehovah in Jesus name as they did not know it yet, so He did not reqiure them to do so. However, since the ransom provides the basis for ALL relationships with God for sinful humans (sin creates a barrier between God who is entirely pure and imperfect humans who are impure), it's value must have been applied retrospectively. In other words God had such confidence in Jesus and the ransom he would provide he credited it's value to his faithful servants and (those that appeal to Him in sincerity) in advanced.Elijah John wrote: Psalm 145.17-18
Upright in all that he does, Yahweh acts only in faithful love. He is close to all who call upon him, all who call on him from the heart.Jesus said: I am the Way; I am Truth and Life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
For debate: How can one reconcile these two seemingly contradictory verses.
The key is "in truth". Some translations say "with sincerity" or "from the heart". Not in getting one's theology "right".
"Close". Plain meaning. Close does not mean "gulf" or "barrier".
Are you sure you're not imposing NT theology on the OT? And making God's grace more complicated than it needs to be? Seems things were much simpler back then, and more straightforward.
