Born Again?

[Zzyzx]

.
Born Again?

Going to church for 1 week or 50 years doesn't make anybody a Christian. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN from above. They may be sincere in thinking they were once Christians, but if they didn't have the born-again experience and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit to the degree that they knew it was real, then I don't believe they were ever real Christians.

Is ER speaking for Christians generally, or is this a reflection of the beliefs of some sects or individuals?

In Christianity, born again means rebirth — namely, spiritual birth into the family of God with Jesus Christ as personal Lord and savior. This is contrasted with the first birth everyone experiences in the flesh (physical world). In the Bible, Jesus stated that only those who are born-again shall see Heaven - "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3).

The term is frequently used by Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Pentecostal and some Mainline branches of Protestant Christianity. It is sometimes associated with non-denominational individuals, groups and churches.

Outside of Christianity, the term "born again" is occasionally used to describe beliefs characterised by renewal, resurgence or return.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again_Christianity

It appears as though only certain sects place great emphasis upon "born again". Does that mean that all others are "not Real Christians"?

They would have never left the faith.

Is it true that once a person is "born again" they "NEVER leave the faith"?

How can anyone be certain that they or someone else is "born again" and will never leave the faith?

I have grave reservations about the legitimacy of so many people around here claiming to be former Christians, for the same reason I mention above.

Can the clear statements by members about being Former Christians be credibly dismissed with "I have greave reservations" by someone who knows nothing about the other person's situation? Or is that a presumptuous platitude?

[Zzyzx]

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What can one learn from Jesus that cannot be learned as well or better elsewhere?

given our ability in 2009 to download any book we want, it's easy enough to spread that these teachings out enough to where anyone can write them down and make them look like their own. and in reality, it's not important that they come from jesus. in fact, jesus may have argued that they came from god, and whoever teaches them is doing god's work. claiming copyright was not really jesus' thing.

The most valuable teachings may have come from Buddha, Gandhi, or Ralph down the street. There is NO indication that the most valuable teachings had anything do to with "Jesus" or "god".

Many grand ideas originated long before Jesus was said to have walked the Earth (and many earlier ideas were incorporated into bible stories and some were attributed to Jesus by bible writers).

that said, its been my experience that if the motivation for living this way is not centered on a desire for a relationship with god, then it begins to feel hollow and hypocritical pretty quickly, and less selfless desires begin to take precedence pretty quickly.

It is unfortunate that many people require external motivation to keep from feeling "hollow and hypocritical" or to have "less selfless desires take precedence".

I, personally, have not experienced such a condition. And, I know many people who are not burdened with religious baggage and who have no difficulty maintaining a high level of motivation and selflessness without external control.

Perhaps it is those who lack the internal motivation and selflessness that feel a need to believe that supernatural beings or spirits "guide" them.

In my observation, any "good person" responds much the same to many life situations – regardless of background or role models. I would venture a guess that faced with a deserving person in critical need of assistance Cnorman, Jester, Bernee, Cathar, Joey (and probably Czollers and Dragon) and I would react similarly – and help as appropriate (without asking for a religious commitment as a condition).

fist, let me say that if anyone needs confirmation of religious affiliation before they do any sort of kindness, they are evidentially wholly unfamiliar with god in general, and jesus especially.

next, i'd probably like to address the term "good person". i realize this derails the forward motion of the thread, but i feel it needs to be dealt with before we can proceed. exactly what makes a person good? where is the line of good? is it good to save a woman from a burning building? is it still good if that woman has had 6 abortions? is it still good if she is a drug addict and a drain on society? if she was going to kill her children the next day is it still good? i bet the men flying planes into building on 9/11 would have described their actions as good.

I respectfully decline to engage in the discussion of "good person". That is why I enclosed the term in quotation marks originally. I do not offer a definition or offer to debate the topic. Others may wish to do so. It is not central to my point or my life view.

the problem with trying to be a good person is that you just don't know how good is good enough, or who's version of good is the right one.

That is part of the problem – which is NOT solved by quoting any religion's promotional literature.

it is for this reason that there is nothing in the bible that calls us to be good. the two greatest commandments are love god, and love others. thats it! badda-friggin-bing. the notion of being a good person is too broad, and open to interpretation. what kind of god would demand that you be a good person in order to get into heaven, and then not provide you with a detailed list of what that is? not a very loving one i would think. instead, the god of the bible calls us to love him, seek him, and follow him, knowing that if we do, the behavioral issues follow suit.

Many who claim to "follow him" go in many different directions – some of which are destructive of other human beings.

There is no assurance that "following him" will result in "behavioral issues following suit". If anything the self-proclaimed Fundamental Christian "followers" who "debate" here demonstrate quite the opposite very frequently.

love your comments -thanks!

I also enjoy this exchange. It is much more enlightened and civil than may debates in these threads -- and is quite apart from the preaching favored by some Christians who dishonor themselves and their chosen religion by ignoring forum rules and guidelines in order to preach rather than debate.

[drs]

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As an aside, the scriptures never state that Christians will live in Heaven eternally with God. It states we will live in the Kingdom of Heaven. The earth will once again become part of the Kingdom of heaven, Jesus will return to rule the earth forever, and Christians will reign with Him forever. If Jesus will rule the earth forever from new Jerusalem, and Christians will reign with Him, where does that put Christians forever?
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Christians will reighn on earth for 1000years with CHRIST then this earth will be no more.


Revelation 20


The Saints Reign with Christ 1000 Years

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.


Revelation 21 (New King James Version

verse 1 this earth is gone.

then a description of New Jerusalem


Revelation 21
All Things Made New
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.�
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.� And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.�
6 And He said to me, “It is done![c] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.�
The New Jerusalem

9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me[f] and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.�[g] 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy[h] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. 17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. 18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
The Glory of the New Jerusalem

22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it,[j] for the glory[k] of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved[l] shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.[m] 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.[n] 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes[o] an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

Other wise we have this

1st birth, flesh and blood, natural birth

2nd birth repentence, faith, the indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT and death to this life becoming a slave to CHRIST forever.

3rd birth the reserction of the body?

the reserction of the body is just that, a incoruptable body that your reborn spirit will be given.

Where is this written in the scriptures? If an incorruptible physical body is rejoined with your "soul," you cannot remain in the Kingdom of God:

I am not understanding your question.



We have all the scriptures above refferenced here



repentence and remission of sins

Luke 24

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise[h] from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.



After you repent and are given the gift of faith to believe in CHRIST then this happens,


Being born again is the indwelling of the FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT into the believer.



John 3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.�


John 14


Jesus Promises Another Helper

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you[/u]. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Indwelling of the Father and the Son

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.�
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?�
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.



Do you agree that your pysical body and your spirit/soul/mind are seperate?

If you agree that they are seperate then it should not be a problem to see the rebirth here and now for those who believe and are indwelt by the SPIRIT of GOD because it is your spirit/soul/mind that is reborn.

So your spirit comes out of the body at the time of physical death and awaits in paridise the resurection when it will be given a incoruptable body.


We can see even here the two different places were the soul goes to wait,

1 Abraham's bossom / paridise,awaiting resurection

2 hades / prison, awaiting judgement or possible repentance


Luke 16


The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell[d] from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’�



This passage shows then to be seperate.

Matthew 10


Jesus Teaches the Fear of God

28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


So finaly it is your soul that needs to be born again from above with the SPIRIT of GOD.

Your earthly flesh body is a temporay one and for those who are born again they will recieve a permanant incoruptable one.


Also note, carefull reading of that one line will show that body and soul are going to hell.(I still hold that those who go to hell will get a eternal body and become like the demons were they will stay forever)

Do you think Satan and his army are working hard to decieve people just to watch them disapear in a blink of a eye?

Satan is looking to enslave them for all time with Him.

Daniel 12
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 25:46 (New King James Version)
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment,but the righteous into eternal life.�

[myth-one.com]

The earth is replaced with what Jesus has been working on in Heaven. You know, "I go to prepare you a place ..."

I am not understanding your question.

You stated that "The resurrection of the body is just that, an incorruptible body that your reborn spirit will be given." But if an incorruptible physical body is rejoined with your "reborn spirit," you cannot remain in the Kingdom of God:

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;... (I Corinthians 15:49-50)

Question: Have you created any new theology to solve this problem? If your soul/body cannot live in the Kingdom of God, what is your second choice? There's always hell. But that would be painful with that incorruptible physical body. But wasn't that the reason for the physical body in the first place, so that nonbelievers could suffer pain eternally? I guess what goes around, comes around. Why would any being in Heaven desire the handicap of a physical body?
________________________________________________________________________________________

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)

Those who believe the "soul living within the body" myth might point to this verse as "proof," as it indicates to them that they have a body and a soul. Since this verse is from the New Testament, the original scripture was probably written in Greek. In that case, the word translated as soul would have been the Greek word "psuche." Psuche is correctly translated into English as a living being that breathes. Notice that this verse and many others indicate that the soul can be killed. That is, it is not immortal.

This verse refers to the two deaths which can befall mankind. The first death man suffers is that which terminates his short first physical life on the earth. This is the death which is spoken of as sleep or rest throughout the scriptures. The majority of mankind will experience this first death without having accepting Jesus as their Savior. Consequently, they will be resurrected at the second mass resurrection as physical bodies once again. If they still do not accept Jesus as their Savior, their physical bodies will be cast into the fires of hell and suffer their second death, which is permanent.

This verse states that we should not fear those which can cause our first death but cannot cause our second death. These would be other men. Rather, we should fear God, who can cause both our first physical death and our permanent second physical death in the fires of hell.
_________________________________________________________________________________

The Kingdom of Heaven includes heaven and other territories. God's will is not presently being done on the Earth, so the Earth is not now included in the Kingdom of Heaven. In fact, we are instructed in the Lord's prayer to pray for the Earth to become part of the Kingdom of Heaven:

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)

After the Second Coming and Jesus' defeat of Satan, the Earth will once again become part of the kingdom:

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)

So Jesus will defeat Satan and the Earth will become part of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus will then rule the Earth from new Jerusalem for ever and ever. What will born again Christians be doing?

...we shall also reign with him. (II Timothy 2:12)

And how long will we be on the Earth reigning with Jesus? For eternity:

...and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

In any event, you will be an unrestrained spirit with freedom of choice. If you desire to go to heaven there should be nothing to stop you. However, based on the description and conditions of the new earth and new Jerusalem, no one should desire to leave!

[Zzyzx]

.

There is no assurance that "following him" will result in "behavioral issues following suit". If anything the self-proclaimed Fundamental Christian "followers" who "debate" here demonstrate quite the opposite very frequently.

I also enjoy this exchange. It is much more enlightened and civil than may debates in these threads -- and is quite apart from the preaching favored by some Christians who dishonor themselves and their chosen religion by ignoring forum rules and guidelines in order to preach rather than debate.

Speaking of Fundamentalists ignoring Forum Rules and Guidelines . . . the exchange between DRS and Myth is NOT consistent with rules and guidelines. It belongs in Holy Huddle or Theology, Doctrine and Dogma where the bible can be assumed to be authoritative and where preaching is appropriate.

Why insist upon polluting debate threads with preaching? Is there a deficiency in ethics or honor with these apologists?

[drs]

I am not understanding your question.

You stated that "The resurrection of the body is just that, an incorruptible body that your reborn spirit will be given." But if an incorruptible physical body is rejoined with your "reborn spirit," you cannot remain in the Kingdom of God:

Sorry, I should have worded that this way,In the resurection you will recieve A incorruptible spiritual body that can take physical form.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)

Those who believe the "soul living within the body" myth might point to this verse as "proof," as it indicates to them that they have a body and a soul. Since this verse is from the New Testament, the original scripture was probably written in Greek. In that case, the word translated as soul would have been the Greek word "psuche." Psuche is correctly translated into English as a living being that breathes. Notice that this verse and many others indicate that the soul can be killed. That is, it is not immortal.

The soul can not be killed by the sword, by famine, or by any other earthy ways.

So when the pysical body dies from whatever reason you come out(your essence, your very being , thought, mind, spirit and soul)

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GOD Speaking here saying my soul

Matthew 12
18Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.


John 4:24 (New King James Version)
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.�



In these 2 passages we see soul and Spirit


GOD says my soul and GOD is Spirit,



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John 6:63 (New King James Version)
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.



This is a powerfull statment, CHRIST'S words and His SPIRIT give life too and feed your soul/spirit

Your flesh(body) profits nothing

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Acts 2


31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.

Soul and flesh seperate


Soul is reborn

Flesh is raised incorruptible

For those in CHRIST ofcourse.

[myth-one.com]

Speaking of Fundamentalists ignoring Forum Rules and Guidelines . . . the exchange between DRS and Myth is NOT consistent with rules and guidelines. It belongs in Holy Huddle or Theology, Doctrine and Dogma where the bible can be assumed to be authoritative and where preaching is appropriate.

Why insist upon polluting debate threads with preaching? Is there a deficiency in ethics or honor with these apologists?

This thread is entitled "Born Again?" That is a Christian term originating in the Holy Bible. Drs and I have been debating the biblical definition of being born again. How can your questions in the OP be answered definitively without understanding the true meaning of the term?

Under your username on your posts, numerous laurels are listed. You are no novice. If this thread belongs in another forum, why did you start it here?

Since you insist on labelling me a fundamentalist, is it OK if I start a subset of posters including you and several others called "Whiners?"

[myth-one.com]

Sorry, I should have worded that this way,In the resurection you will recieve A incorruptible spiritual body that can take physical form.

Earlier you said:

I agree that flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom, but when I die my spirit will go into the presence of GOD and await the resurrection and my fleshly body goes into the ground.

If you were born with a spirit or soul that leaves the body when you die and goes to God, why would you need to receive another "incorruptible spiritual body" at your ressurection?

Two times eternity is the same as eternity!

[Cathar1950]

Speaking of Fundamentalists ignoring Forum Rules and Guidelines . . . the exchange between DRS and Myth is NOT consistent with rules and guidelines. It belongs in Holy Huddle or Theology, Doctrine and Dogma where the bible can be assumed to be authoritative and where preaching is appropriate.

Why insist upon polluting debate threads with preaching? Is there a deficiency in ethics or honor with these apologists?

This thread is entitled "Born Again?" That is a Christian term originating in the Holy Bible. Drs and I have been debating the biblical definition of being born again. How can your questions in the OP be answered definitively without understanding the true meaning of the term?

Under your username on your posts, numerous laurels are listed. You are no novice. If this thread belongs in another forum, why did you start it here?

Since you insist on labelling me a fundamentalist, is it OK if I start a subset of posters including you and several others called "Whiners?"

Winners might work.
I tend to lump you all together as Bible Believers because that is what you are even if there are disagreements among you including what it means to be born again. The concept has evolved.
Paul seems to indicate that he felt being born again was when you were baptised where you died with Christ and rose with Christ as the new humanity.
Some interpret being born of the water was being born as a baby and being born again was the baptism, including the gospel of John. Matthew and Mark don't bother with it and Luke invented the spirit baptism as different then the almost magical ritual of water baptism. He or she writes about Apollos knew only the baptism of John. The unknown author of Luke goes on how Apollos taught "the things concerning Jesus carefully" (Acts 18:25), that he was "Mighty in the scriptures", "fervent in spirit", "and instructed in the way of the Lord". S.G.F. Brandon points out that this story simple doesn't make sense and that the author had problems with the Jewish Christianity of Alexandra the sister community of Jerusalem and a center of Jewish Christianity after the destruction of Jerusalem and the loss of its leadership in favor of Pauline Christianity for Gentiles. According to Paul the Jewish Christian withdrew from him and ran around after him correcting his teaching until Paul was rehabilitated after the loss of Jewish leaders. Given the differences in the gospels in the NT any ideas about " the biblical definition of being born again" are going to fall short as what you have is a number of interpretation even in the gospels which any interpretation you have has ignored because you wrongly think they are all saying the same thing.

[czollers]

I find it interesting that Christians claim their faith comes with a warranty....as if they have a contractual relationship with the creator of the universe.....but contracts,to be enforceable, must be supported by consideration and I don't see how joining a God club can be consideration for a salvation contract whereas a lifetime of good works is just a waste of effort....if you join the wrong God club or none at all....

i agree so much with your resistance to god clubs. i hate them. i have been to so many churches that are little more than country clubs... you have to be a member to have any involvement whatsoever, and to be a member you have to go through a interview process so they can weed you out if you're not good enough. sounds like a country club to me, and it does NOT sound like jesus, or even the church as it looked in acts.

flail, the entire point of everything in the bible from genesis to revelation all boils down to this simple message: like a parent, god loves us. he wants to protect us from ourselves and from our enemies. when we fall, he wants to pick us up, when we succeed, he is proud. there is no club, we're all card carrying members, and jesus' work was a gift that is freely available to every single person. and like any gift, all we have to do is accept it.

period. that's it! it doesn't matter if you like religion or not. the bible does not claim to care if you go do pious things at a church, or if you evangelize, or pray with fancy religious words. biblically speaking, what matters is- you accept the gift of gratefully and honestly. IMO, all that other hooplah you see people doing is usually a result of how a person who has already accepted the gift feels because of it.

as for good works, they are not what god wants according to the bible. he is far more interested in whats in your heart than what you do. the gift cannot be earned. according to james, the desire to do good works can and should flow as a result of gratitude for the gift.

[drs]

Sorry, I should have worded that this way,In the resurection you will recieve A incorruptible spiritual body that can take physical form.

Earlier you said:

I agree that flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom, but when I die my spirit will go into the presence of GOD and await the resurrection and my fleshly body goes into the ground.

If you were born with a spirit or soul that leaves the body when you die and goes to God, why would you need to receive another "incorruptible spiritual body" at your ressurection?

All I can say is that is the way GOD designed it.

1 corruptible earthly body for everyone.

And 1 incorruptible eternal spiritual body for those souls born again in CHRIST.