The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[myth-one.com]

So the way that it did start out and continue, was "Very Good" re YHVH's Agenda.

It was "Good" enough to get the ball rolling, and gave something for humans to have to subdue.

No, we were to maintain and replenish the earth to keep it in "very good" condition.

No. The storyline and the evidence does not support the assertion that The Earth started out in a prime condition.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep... (Genesis 1:1-2)

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:31)

OK, give me even one piece of evidence that the earth created by God needed to be "subdued" by mankind.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1341]

OK, give me even one piece of evidence that the earth created by YHVH needed to be "subdued" by mankind.

You already provided one piece of evidence when you mentioned “And YHVH blessed them, and YHVH said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”

Re that evidence, another piece of evidence is how much subduing of The Earth has been achieved by humans since that commission.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1341]

OK, give me even one piece of evidence that the earth created by YHVH needed to be "subdued" by mankind.

You already provided one piece of evidence when you mentioned “And YHVH blessed them, and YHVH said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”

Re that evidence, another piece of evidence is how much subduing of The Earth has been achieved by humans since that commission.

The purpose of man is to eventually replace the rebellious angels who were originally given dominion over the earth.

But under man's dominion and subduing, the earth is prophesied to once again reach a state of great tribulation:

Matthew 24:21-22
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

So we will probably learn that God's way is the best way by trying our way and failing.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1343]

The tangent you have gone off on, doesn't appear to connect with what I have been arguing.

There is no mention in The First Creation Story of "angels", rebellious or otherwise or mention of YHVH creating humans in order to replace creations which failed in any commission, or indeed, any commission from YHVH given to such entities.

Can you tie your argument in with The First Creation Story, that it would make sense of your tangential argument?

Thanks.

So we will probably learn that YHVH's way is the best way by trying our way and failing.

Your argument has it that YHVH created two specific species, one which failed, and the other which will somehow learn that YHVH's 'way' is 'the best' - hardly convincing, since the argument also includes as part of "YHVH's way" is to create mechanisms which ultimately fail.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1343]

The tangent you have gone off on, doesn't appear to connect with what I have been arguing.

There is no mention in The First Creation Story of "angels", rebellious or otherwise or mention of YHVH creating humans in order to replace creations which failed in any commission, or indeed, any commission from YHVH given to such entities.

Can you tie your argument in with The First Creation Story, that it would make sense of your tangential argument?

Thanks.

So we will probably learn that YHVH's way is the best way by trying our way and failing.

Your argument has it that YHVH created two specific species, one which failed, and the other which will somehow learn that YHVH's 'way' is 'the best' - hardly convincing, since the argument also includes as part of "YHVH's way" is to create mechanisms which ultimately fail.

There are two separate type of species defined in the Bible -- natural (or physical) and spiritual.

There is not much info about spiritual bodied beings because it didn't concern us.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Satan was given rule over the earth and he had a host of angels assigned to the earth under His command.

But Satan wanted more power and glory and wanted to be equal to the most high God, so he and some angels under his command rebelled against God.

There was war in heaven, God prevailed, and Satan and the rebels were cast back to the earth.

As a result of their abandoning their earthly responsibilities, the earth had become formless, empty, and dark.

God then returned to the decimated earth and began the recreation of a decimated earth in Genesis 1:3 by turning the lights back on.

Mankind was created in this recreation. So man is Plan B.

In the recreation God did not create more spiritual beings and risk being stuck with more rebels for eternity. He created a mortal being called man a little lower than the angels. Man can chose to become equal unto the angels and replace the original earthly caretakers.

In both cases, God created beings well equipped for their jobs. One attribute required was freedom of choice.

Making some poor decisions led to the system "failures". Mankind goes through a taste of life and then decides to accept or reject everlasting life. Thus the system involving mankind should produce angels who are less likely to rebel against God.

Those who are unsure can opt out by choosing the second death.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1345]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Satan was given rule over the earth and he had a host of angels assigned to the earth under His command.

Sorry, there is no mention of this in First Creation story or the Second Creation story.

Your story here makes YHVH out to have made some poor decisions that led to system "failures" and is bizarre to say the least.

[JehovahsWitness]

...the whole universe can be described as a wild beauty/"idyllic"..

Is the earth not part of the universe?

... that "Very Good" from YHVH's perspective means that from the human perspective, things were not in an "idyllic condition" ...

Except for the whole universe (see above) Agreed?

[JehovahsWitness]

It was not finished at all, otherwise YHVH would not have commissioned humans to subdue it.

Are you saying that which needs to be subdued cannot be finished?

• What about a wild horse? Is it "finished" or "unfinished"?

• Is a jungle "finished" or "unfinished"?

Can you see a flaw to your position.

[JehovahsWitness]

The earth never had an 'idyllic condition' in which to 'return' to.

Thus it was not ideal [beautiful enough] for human habitation in that way.

IDEAL AND IDYLLIC DO NOT MEAN THE SAME THING



source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-a ... re%20ideal.


Was the earth idyllic [PLEASING] to God after the 6th creative day?

• ANSWER If the bible is to be believed, all indication is it most certainly was?

Was the earth idyllic [PLEASING] to Adam after the 6th creative day?

• ANSWER Adam would not have been in a position to know, not having been outside of the garden; that said there is no reason to believe Adam would have held the planet to a higher standard than his Creator?

Was the entire earth ideal [SUITABLE] for human habitation ?

• No. For example, parts of the planet was covered in water. Water is ideal for fish and other creatures but it is not ideal for humans.

Were the unsuitable parts BEAUTIFUL and FINISHED?

• There is no scriptural reason to suppose otherwise.

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Could the earth be described as "idyllic" by the end if the 6TH creative day ?
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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

EARLY EARTH, THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS and ...THE GARDEN OF EDEN

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1345]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Satan was given rule over the earth and he had a host of angels assigned to the earth under His command.

Sorry, there is no mention of this in First Creation story or the Second Creation story.

The first and second creation stories are your fiction.

Luke 4:5-7
And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

So the devil was given power over the earth. And the devil had angels under his control on the earth:

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Your story here makes YHVH out to have made some poor decisions that led to system "failures" and is bizarre to say the least.

And you believe God made the earth in need of work and completion. Was that His original "failure"?