The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[William]

This is the kingdom for which millions pray when they say.... " Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth ..."

You sound impressed.

I am.. all YHVHs works are impressive to me: setting up a world government (that is what THE KINGDOM OF YHVH is, a government) that will return this our planet earth to its idyllic condition...

The earth never had an 'idyllic condition' in which to 'return' to.

Biblically speaking of course.

Of course.

GENESIS 1 : 31 NLT

Then YHVH looked over all YHVH had made, and YHVH saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day

However, it is unwise to conflate your belief that this means earth was in this "idyllic condition" [re "paradise"] and something to 'return to' as if that is the original condition YHVH made it, and therefore, deemed it to be "good".

YHVH blessed humans, and YHVH set instructions in humans, prompting them to be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

Clearly, YHVH made the earth as something which required subduing through the process of human procreation in order that the task could be carried out...and thus the earth couldn't have be a paradise at the beginning of the situation YHVH created and pronounced as "good" - Good to go. Good for a particular purpose.

Not "good because it was a paradise."

[JehovahsWitness]

WAS THE EARTH "IDYLLIC " AFTER THE SIXTH DAY



At the end of the 6th day God declared his work very good. Thus the physical creation(including the EARTH) its crowning jewel) was not only without fault but evidenty according to scripture perfectly beautiful ...

ECCLESIASTES 3:11 New King James Version
He has made everything beautiful in its time ...

GENESIS 1 : 31 NLT

Then YHVH looked over all YHVH had made, and YHVH saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day

1. Idyllic means beautiful, and the bible says God has made things beautiful.

2. Idyllic means pleasant, and God's post creation declaration of everything being it being "very good" indicates HE was pleased with His work

Even now there are parts of the earth that are of staggering natural beauty and since it was originally pleasant (evidently pleasing to the Creator and others who observed it), "idyllic" is a fitting adjective to describe the earth at that time.

[JehovahsWitness]

DOES THE FACT THAT ADAM AND EVE WERE CHARGED TO "SUBDUE" THE EARTH INDICATE IT COULD NOT IN ITS NATURAL STATE BE CONSIDERED IDYLLIC?

Not at all; if we take "idyllic" to mean extremely beautiful the earth most certainly was that even before Adam and Eve were created. However it's beauty was natural (wild) and not culitvated. We note that God prepared a garden for the first couple to actually live in, which indicates he knew that they needed certain conditions to be comfortable.

GENESIS 2

Jehovah God planted a garden in Eden, toward the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food

The first couple needed food and they needed a degree of physical comfort; this God provided by planting a GARDEN*.

THE WHOLE EARTH WAS NOT A ORIGINALLY A GARDEN* (PARADISE) BUT THE WHOLE EARTH WAS EXTREMELY BEAUTIFUL (IDYLLIC)


* The word paradise means "garden"

So the need to adapt the rugged, natural beauty of the earth to accommodate for an ever extending human family does not imply that the planet was not originally beautiful. Only that that beauty needed to be cultivated for humans to live comfortably on it. They would not be improving on it (it was already perfect) but they were taking what was already there and adapting it to maximize their own comfort.

To illustrate: A woman might have stunningly beautiful thick wavy hair; but she is unlikely to leave it uncombed and uncut. It might get in her eyes when she is trying to work or if uncut it might simply be too thick to manage with ease. If she combs it, trims it or pins back the curls, she isnt "improving" her hair(which is naturally beautiful) , she is just controlling it so she can be comfortable.

In a similar way, Adam and Eve then were charged to follow Gods lead and make the whole earth like their garden* home (paradise). They were to reign in (subdue/control) some of its natural beauty to make it more inhabitable for humans. They would not be IMPROVING on the earth, any more than cutting one's hair or pruning a tree improves it; they were to adapt the resources that were there in abundance to their own convenience and pleasure.

When Gods Government (KINGDOM) takes contol of the planet, the meek that inherit the earth will have the privilege of fululfilling the original commission Adam and Eve sadly failed to begin.


RELATED POSTS

Was the planet earth FINISHED by the end of the 6th creative day of Genesis?
viewtopic.php?p=1104058#p1104058

Was the earth ideal by the end of the 6TH creative day of Genesis?
viewtopic.php?p=1104041#p1104041

Could the earth be described as "idyllic" by the end if the 6TH creative day ?
viewtopic.php?p=1103630#p1103630

Was the whole earth a PARADISE by the end of the 6th creative day?
viewtopic.php?p=1103635#p1103635

Did the garden of EDEN cover the entire planet earth?
viewtopic.php?p=1092491#p1092491

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

EARLY EARTH, THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS and ...THE EARTHLY PARADISE

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1312]

Even now there are parts of the earth that are of staggerjng natural beauty and since it was originally pleasant (evidently pleasing to the Creator and others who observed it), "idyllic" is a fitting adjective to describe the earth at that time.

As long as this is not conflated with the idea that the whole earth was a subdued paradise - such as some Christians think that it was and hope that it "some day shall be again", we agree.

Otherwise, "Huston - we have a problem".

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1313]

Adam and Eve then were charged to follow Gods lead and make the whole earth like their garden* home (paradise), were to reign in (subdue/control) some of its natural beauty to make it more inhabitable for humans.

Thus it was not ideal [beautiful enough] for human habitation in that way.

No one is arguing that even the wild things are not "beautiful" - you go off on a tangent in that regard.
What YHVH made good, YHVH commissioned humans to make better.

Agreed?

We note that YHVH prepared a garden for the first couple to actually live in, which indicates YHVH knew that they needed certain conditions to be comfortable.

There is contention re this belief as well. Adam was not the first human YHVH created as Adam was created for a specific thing. The two creation stories are best not conflated.

The First creation story clearly shows a difference between how YHVH worked with the first humans and how YHVH specifically worked with Adam, after planting a Garden in an isolated place among the wilds of the Earth.
These creation stories appear to be describing different epochs - related - but occurring at different timelines re Earth.

When read that way, the whole storyline changes significantly re the psyche of the individual personality and the picture becomes much clearer as a result, re The Agenda of YHVH.

[JehovahsWitness]

The Messiah was to reign in Jerusalem. Which Jerusalem? According to Hebrews 12:22 and Galatians 4:26 there is also a Jerusalem in heaven.

The "heavenly" Jerusalem is symbolic of all the loyal angels in heaven (not to be confused with" the NEW Jerusalem")

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM , THE 144, 000 and ... THE NEW JERUSALEM

[myth-one.com]

It has been shown as well that spirits are not immortal.

Yes of course, and Jesus is the only other spirit person that is immortal, according to I Timothy 6:16.

Point One:

Adam and Eve were ejected from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating from the Tree of Life and thus living forever:

Genesis 3:22-23
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Definition of immortal: Incapable of dying.

If God and the other spirits present at that time live forever, then all of them are immortal.

Point Two:

Lucifer, Satan, or the devil is immortal:

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Since the devil will be tormented for ever, he is immortal.

<===========================>

Please respond to the above two short challenges, and I'll counter I Timothy 6:16 as point three. It will be larger and more complicated.

Thanks in advance.

[onewithhim]

This is the kingdom for which millions pray when they say.... " Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth ..."

You sound impressed.

I am.. all YHVHs works are impressive to me: setting up a world government (that is what THE KINGDOM OF YHVH is, a government) that will return this our planet earth to its idyllic condition...

The earth never had an 'idyllic condition' in which to 'return' to.

But it did. The Garden of Eden was idyllic condition. Adam was instructed to take care of it (like, you could say, a master gardener takes care of his garden today). And it was Jehovah's desire to have the Garden extended throughout the earth. Just because Adam dropped the ball doesn't mean that Jehovah's plans were squelched for all time.

[onewithhim]

It has been shown as well that spirits are not immortal.

Yes of course, and Jesus is the only other spirit person that is immortal, according to I Timothy 6:16.

Point One:

Adam and Eve were ejected from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating from the Tree of Life and thus living forever:

Genesis 3:22-23
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Definition of immortal: Incapable of dying.

If God and the other spirits present at that time live forever, then all of them are immortal.

Point Two:

Lucifer, Satan, or the devil is immortal:

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Since the devil will be tormented for ever, he is immortal.

<===========================>

Please respond to the above two short challenges, and I'll counter I Timothy 6:16 as point three. It will be larger and more complicated.

Thanks in advance.

To be "tormented" forever doesn't mean to be tortured forever. "Tormented" is translated from a Greek word meaning to keep in a condition that a person or thing is restrained from going anywhere or doing anything, and this meaning aligns with the thought of not being able to do anything, and this is caused by the total destruction of the individual. A dead being is certainly tormented, or, kept from doing anything ever again. Therefore your idea that the spirits that will be "tormented" are immortal is undermined completely. They are merely obliterated forever, thus causing them not to be able to do anything.

Point three is not complicated. I Timothy 6:16 is very clear. Only Jesus was said to be immortal.

[myth-one.com]

It has been shown as well that spirits are not immortal.

Yes of course, and Jesus is the only other spirit person that is immortal, according to I Timothy 6:16.

Point One:

Adam and Eve were ejected from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating from the Tree of Life and thus living forever:

Genesis 3:22-23
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Definition of immortal: Incapable of dying.

If God and the other spirits present at that time live forever, then all of them are immortal.

Point Two:

Lucifer, Satan, or the devil is immortal:

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Since the devil will be tormented for ever, he is immortal.

Please respond to the above two short challenges, and I'll counter I Timothy 6:16 as point three. It will be larger and more complicated.

Thanks in advance.

To be "tormented" forever doesn't mean to be tortured forever. "Tormented" is translated from a Greek word meaning to keep in a condition that a person or thing is restrained from going anywhere or doing anything, and this meaning aligns with the thought of not being able to do anything, and this is caused by the total destruction of the individual. A dead being is certainly tormented, or, kept from doing anything ever again. Therefore your idea that the spirits that will be "tormented" are immortal is undermined completely. They are merely obliterated forever, thus causing them not to be able to do anything.

Point three is not complicated. I Timothy 6:16 is very clear. Only Jesus was said to be immortal.

<================= My Response ================>

Definition of torment: severe physical or mental suffering:

Definition of suffering: the state of undergoing pain, distress, or hardship:

Ecclesiastes 9:5
. . . the dead know not any thing...

If the devil is going to undergo pain, distress, or hardship eternally, then he is not dead because to undergo pain, distress, and hardship one knows something.

To know something eternally, one must be alive eternally. Thus Satan is immortal.

Point three is not complicated. I Timothy 6:16 is very clear. Only Jesus was said to be immortal.

Point three means exactly what it clearly states, and yes, point three is not complicated and it is very clear!!

It clearly does not state that "only Jesus was said to be immortal" as you claim!

It states that only Jesus hath immortality.

But only those who understand the mechanism by which believers gain immortality can understand why "only Jesus hath immortality."

You obviously do not understand that mechanism.

Here is how believers gain everlasting life (immortality) under the New Testament Covenant between God and mankind:

<==================================>

The Lord Jesus Christ is the only human who ever qualified to inherit everlasting life under the Old Testament Covenant. He became the only heir unto everlasting life by living a sinless human life as a Jewish man covered under that covenant!

Thus, Jesus is the only human for whom immortality awaits when the will is probated. It is His possession to do with as He pleases.

Thus "only Jesus hath immortality" means exactly what it states!

But Jesus will gift His inheritance of immortality to those who believeth in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Thus, salvation becomes a gift of God through Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1319]

I stand by what I wrote in post 1318. Let anyone looking on decide for themselves what makes sense.