Born Again?

[Zzyzx]

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Born Again?

Going to church for 1 week or 50 years doesn't make anybody a Christian. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN from above. They may be sincere in thinking they were once Christians, but if they didn't have the born-again experience and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit to the degree that they knew it was real, then I don't believe they were ever real Christians.

Is ER speaking for Christians generally, or is this a reflection of the beliefs of some sects or individuals?

In Christianity, born again means rebirth — namely, spiritual birth into the family of God with Jesus Christ as personal Lord and savior. This is contrasted with the first birth everyone experiences in the flesh (physical world). In the Bible, Jesus stated that only those who are born-again shall see Heaven - "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3).

The term is frequently used by Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Pentecostal and some Mainline branches of Protestant Christianity. It is sometimes associated with non-denominational individuals, groups and churches.

Outside of Christianity, the term "born again" is occasionally used to describe beliefs characterised by renewal, resurgence or return.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again_Christianity

It appears as though only certain sects place great emphasis upon "born again". Does that mean that all others are "not Real Christians"?

They would have never left the faith.

Is it true that once a person is "born again" they "NEVER leave the faith"?

How can anyone be certain that they or someone else is "born again" and will never leave the faith?

I have grave reservations about the legitimacy of so many people around here claiming to be former Christians, for the same reason I mention above.

Can the clear statements by members about being Former Christians be credibly dismissed with "I have greave reservations" by someone who knows nothing about the other person's situation? Or is that a presumptuous platitude?

[drs]

I meant, is it possible that Jesus will reincarnate???

No, that is not possible.

[myth-one.com]

You can not accept GOD is love and understand eternal punishment for humans.

I can understand that both of those concepts cannot be true.

I still can't get over it, that you can accept eternal punishment for angels, why?

Eternal punishment is a possibility for the angels! Satan, for example, will be tormented day and night for eternity. Angels are the only beings capable of being punished forever, because they are the only beings which live forever!

Humans become like angels, so it is the same thing and same punishment, can you not see this.

Only Christian humans become like the angels, not all humans! Others perish and never live again -- as anything!

Look I am not trying to give you a hard time

I forgive you. I know you cannot help yourself. You cannot throw off the false claims you have been taught since youth. It is difficult even when overwhelmed with logical and biblical proofs. It was difficult for me also. Ask God to open your understanding of the scriptures.

This is how so many get decieved, they listen to Satans lies.

Agreed! Satan told you that you are immortal, "Ye shall not surely die." Most Christians, including yourself, have believed in the eternal soul since he spoke that lie.

[drs]

You can not accept GOD is love and understand eternal punishment for humans.

I can understand that both of those concepts cannot be true.

I still can't get over it, that you can accept eternal punishment for angels, why?

Eternal punishment is a possibility for the angels! Satan, for example, will be tormented day and night for eternity. Angels are the only beings capable of being punished forever, because they are the only beings which live forever!

Humans become like angels, so it is the same thing and same punishment, can you not see this.

Only Christian humans become like the angels, not all humans! Others perish and never live again -- as anything!

If you can accept that Christian humans become like angels then why can you not accept that other humans can become like demons and suffer the same punishment forever?

Revelation 14
If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.�

The smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever and they shall have no rest day or night.

This is clear reffernce to everlasting punishment.

[myth-one.com]

If you can accept that Christian humans become like angels then why can you not accept that other humans can become like demons and suffer the same punishment forever?

All humans are physical bodies which die. The wages of sin is death and all humans sin. But Jesus has paid the price of sinning for those who believe in Him. Thus Christians are born again as spiritual angels at the Second Coming. Non-believers are not born again as spirits, and thus they perish. Demons are spirits if they live forever.

Do you believe it makes sense to torture non-believers eternally?

The smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever and they shall have no rest day or night.

Their torment was the fire. Yes, the smoke of their torment ascends forever. That says nothing about those humans cast into hell! The smoke of the fire lasts forever because the fire lasts forever. They are dead. The wages of sin is death. Believers shall not perish, non-believers shall perish. Non-believers know neither rest, day, night, black, white, nor anything -- because they are dead as the scriptures state everywhere.

This is clear reffernce to everlasting punishment.

That is correct. What you do not understand is what the punishment entails. Death is the punishment! The wages of sin is death. Death is everlasting punishment. Once you accept the lie of the eternal soul, death has no meaning to you and thus you cannot understand the scriptures.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Do you not understand John 3:16?

[drs]

If you can accept that Christian humans become like angels then why can you not accept that other humans can become like demons and suffer the same punishment forever?

All humans are physical bodies which die. The wages of sin is death and all humans sin. But Jesus has paid the price of sinning for those who believe in Him. Thus Christians are born again as spiritual angels at the Second Coming. Non-believers are not born again as spirits, and thus they perish. Demons are spirits if they live forever.

Do you believe it makes sense to torture non-believers eternally?

If you would stop skiping this scripture here you would know there is not any OT people who are unbelievers only unrepentant souls.

If you skip over this again and just go back to saying the soul myth again, I am going to have to conclude that refuse to look at scripture because of you own personal bias.

Verse 18 put to death inthe flesh made alive in the SPIRIT.

verse 19 CHRIST after he died on the cross went and preached to all the spirits in prison.

Verse 20, last time you tried to say these were angels but you can see very clearly who these spirits are verse 20 All but the eight souls died in the flood.


1 Peter 3

Christ’s Suffering and Ours

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water



I have already given you the parable of lazaras and the rich man which taught us that there are two places a soul goes when the body dies.


Also who knows the scripture does not say, but maybe some souls who died after CHRIST came, who are now in prison may repent also.

There is much more happening then what we see around us in this world.

The smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever and they shall have no rest day or night.

Their torment was the fire. Yes, the smoke of their torment ascends forever. That says nothing about those humans cast into hell! The smoke of the fire lasts forever because the fire lasts forever. They are dead. The wages of sin is death. Believers shall not perish, non-believers shall perish. Non-believers know neither rest, day, night, black, white, nor anything -- because they are dead as the scriptures state everywhere.

This is clear reffernce to everlasting punishment.

That is correct. What you do not understand is what the punishment entails. Death is the punishment! The wages of sin is death. Death is everlasting punishment. Once you accept the lie of the eternal soul, death has no meaning to you and thus you cannot understand the scriptures.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Do you not understand John 3:16?

You refuse to accept what scripture teaches,

Maybe death is not as simple or what you think it is.


Perish

1) to destroy

a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin

b) render useless

c) to kill

d) to declare that one must be put to death

e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell

f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed

2) to destroy

a) to lose

[myth-one.com]

I have already given you the parable of lazaras and the rich man which taught us that there are two places a soul goes when the body dies.

What happens to the souls of innocent children that are taken by death?

[drs]

I have already given you the parable of lazaras and the rich man which taught us that there are two places a soul goes when the body dies.

What happens to the souls of innocent children that are taken by death?

Exodus 33:19 (New King James Version)
19 Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.�


Romans 9
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.�[f] 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

[myth-one.com]

I have already given you the parable of lazaras and the rich man which taught us that there are two places a soul goes when the body dies.

What happens to the souls of innocent children that are taken by death?

[center]**** Second attempt to get an answer ****[/center]

[drs]

I have already given you the parable of lazaras and the rich man which taught us that there are two places a soul goes when the body dies.

What happens to the souls of innocent children that are taken by death?

[center]**** Second attempt to get an answer ****[/center]

What more anwser are you looking for?

[myth-one.com]

I have already given you the parable of lazaras and the rich man which taught us that there are two places a soul goes when the body dies.

What happens to the souls of innocent children that are taken by death?

What more anwser are you looking for?

You have already ruled the options down to only two Possibilities:

... there are two places a soul goes when the body dies.

I suppose you mean heaven and hell.

So where do the souls of innocent children that are taken by death go to spend eternity?

[center]******** Heaven or Hell ********[/center]