RACE

[jcrawford]

Vince Sarich is a famous neo-Darwinist. His new book is about the existence of human races.

http://www.curledup.com/racereal.htm

TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION AND DEBATE:

Since Sarich claims that racial features are self-evident, can human races be scientifically distinguished and classified by evolutionists in the same way and to the same extent that human species are?

If not, how are human species recognized and identified by evolutionists?

[jcrawford]

Here's a link to help stimulate conversation on the topic.

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/sarich_miele.htm

[Grumpy]

jcrawford

Your slander by association is really intolerable. In the interest of showing how people in glass houses should abstain from throwing stones I present the following websites(and they are far from the most offensive).

Unlike you I do not insinuate that all Christians hold the precepts of the people depicted in these sites. Nor do I list them to denigrate the motives or morals of my opponents(unlike you). My only purpose is to show your moral bankruptcy in these tactics when it can easily be seen that you are the pot calling the kettle black.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

The founder of ALL protestant sects of Christianity and his racism.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm

Hitler's Christianity as expressed in his speeches.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/Dark ... ntents.htm

The dark side of the force. It ain't pretty.

I have made myself feel ill just to have handled this subject matter, as I have said, these are far from the worst on the web. Some of the White Power Christians sites are completely insane(and irrelevant, as is the book by Vince Sarich).

jcrawford, you can begin behaving like an adult with some morals,or we can begin treating you with exactly the lack of respect you have already shown us. It's your choice but don't even think of ignoring this post.

Grumpy

[jcrawford]

Some of the White Power Christians sites are completely insane(and irrelevant, as is the book by Vince Sarich).

Comparing and equating Vince Sarich's book on race to some Christian websites is odd seeing how Vince is a leading neo-Darwinist theorist and exponent of the common genetic ancestry of humans and chimpanzees.

jcrawford, you can begin behaving like an adult with some morals,or we can begin treating you with exactly the lack of respect you have already shown us. It's your choice but don't even think of ignoring this post.
Grumpy

No need to get angry even if you are Grumpy, since I'm just interested in investigating and exploring the scientific implications and ramifications of neo-Darwinist theories about human origins in Africa out of common ancestors of African people, monkeys and apes. What's immoral, immature or disrespectful about that?

Don't you think it is important to show how all human beings today are
equally descended from a genetically human tribe of Homo sapiens sapiens in Africa, and that we are all genetically related to other members in the Homidae family of great apes?

[Grumpy]

jcrawford you asked

What's immoral, immature or disrespectful about that?

I direct you to your words from another forum in bold bellow. These are slander of evolutionist in the same manner and extent that using the speeches of Adolf Hitler to smear all Christians would be, or using the anti-sematism of Martin Luther, the founder of ALL PROTESTANT SECTS. It shows a complete lack of morals to practice guilt by association as you have done.

An intelligently designed legal attack is exposing the soft underbelly of neo-Darwinist facism in public education.

How is it Facism to insist that only science be taught in a science classroom???

The only thing that really "counts as evolution" in my mind, is the neo-Darwinist racial prejudice that 'primitive' African people evolved from common ancestors of African monkeys and apes before any Asian or European human beings were around to tell them they didn't.

Evolution of humans from apelike forebearers is a FACT supported by huge amounts of evidence, all humans share this trait, not just Africans.

Now you are delving into the neo-Darwinist and Marxist-Leninist philosophy, ideology and metaphysics of scientific materialism and biological determinism.

Marxist-Leninist??? Metaphysics of scientific materialism??? Biological determinism??? Evolution is a science, not a philosophy. Those who misuse the science to promote evil philosophies are the ones at fault, not the scientists who do the scientific work and you can stop your slander or we can take it up with the administrators of these forums. Understand???

Grumpy


[/quote]

[jcrawford]

I direct you to your words from another forum in bold bellow. These are slander of evolutionist in the same manner and extent that using the speeches of Adolf Hitler to smear all Christians would be, or using the anti-sematism of Martin Luther, the founder of ALL PROTESTANT SECTS. It shows a complete lack of morals to practice guilt by association as you have done.

By maintaining that neo-Darwinist theories of human evolution in Africa are racially anti-Semitic and anti-Hamitic, I'm not slandering all evolutionists any more than you would be slandering any Christians if you quoted some anti-Semitic speeches or writings by Christians.

How is it Facism to insist that only science be taught in a science classroom???

It's a form of scientific facism on the part of neo-Darwinists in public education to censor the free speech and writings of other scientists and teachers who scientifically repudiate and discredit some neo-Darwinist theories.

Evolution of humans from apelike forebearers is a FACT supported by huge amounts of evidence, all humans share this trait, not just Africans.

That's just neo-Darwinist rhetoric, dogma and propaganda on your part, Grumpy, since even scientific theorists can't give a detailed account of human evolution from "ape-like forbears" in Africa without dehumanizing the ancestors of early African people. Even labeling the first African people on earth (H. habilis) as an 'extinct species,' is racist.

Evolution is a science, not a philosophy.

Evolution, like science itself, is just a body and branch of knowledge. Same as philosophy and religion. Don't tell me you think that neo-Darwinists know more or are better than other professionals.

Those who misuse the science to promote evil philosophies are the ones at fault, not the scientists who do the scientific work and you can stop your slander or we can take it up with the administrators of these forums. Understand???
Grumpy

Chill out, Grumpy. Your anger is clouding your 'common' sense and scientific judgement.

[Dilettante]

Let's not get

[Grumpy]

jcrawford

I'm sorry, I thought you might know something about the subject you are trying to debate. Your last post disabused me of that notion. For example:

By maintaining that neo-Darwinist theories of human evolution in Africa are racially anti-Semitic and anti-Hamitic, I'm not slandering all evolutionists any more than you would be slandering any Christians if you quoted some anti-Semitic speeches or writings by Christians.

Where is your evidence justifying this obvious falsehood?

It's a form of scientific facism on the part of neo-Darwinists in public education to censor the free speech and writings of other scientists and teachers who scientifically repudiate and discredit some neo-Darwinist theories.

At what time and to whom have we kept any scientific evidence out of what classroom. This is just a strawman erected to further your cause. Anyone can submit anything to peer review and if it survives it will be accepted by the scientific community. After all every theory now taught in public schools had to go through the same process. Of course, if the evidence doesn't support the theory it is not valid. Would you have falsehoods taught as truths??? You have absolutely no evidence to support your false accusations of fasism, you just do it in an attempt to denigrate your opponents. It's called bearing false witness.

That's just neo-Darwinist rhetoric, dogma and propaganda on your part, Grumpy, since even scientific theorists can't give a detailed account of human evolution from "ape-like forbears" in Africa without dehumanizing the ancestors of early African people. Even labeling the first African people on earth (H. habilis) as an 'extinct species,' is racist.

I would simply direct your attention to the post in Kitzmiller vs Dover,Pa Fri. 2:01 pm where I easily refute the above quote. It isn't racist to point out the forebearers of ALL people(without exception) came from Africa, we are all one race, one species, one people, that's the truth that evolution teaches us and that won't change no matter how many lies(false witness) are told about the matter.

Evolution, like science itself, is just a body and branch of knowledge. Same as philosophy and religion. Don't tell me you think that neo-Darwinists know more or are better than other professionals.

Here you show the depths of complete ignorance you have plumbed. Science is based on facts, religion and philosophy are based on beliefs. Or are you going to tell us that math has a philosophy??? What is the religion of 2+2??? What principle of behavior is represented by the number 42(you Douglas Adams fans keep the answer to yourselves)??? If you can't tell the difference your not qualified to debate these subjects.

Chill out, Grumpy. Your anger is clouding your 'common' sense and scientific judgement.

It's your morals and scientific judgement which are in question here. You have shown little evidence of either. I'm willing to debate scientific principles all day long but I insist you behave in a moral manner. You learn that lesson and we'll get along just fine, you don't and we won't, nor will I be silent about your reprehensable, false accusations.

Grumpy

[jcrawford]

By maintaining that neo-Darwinist theories of human evolution in Africa are racially anti-Semitic and anti-Hamitic, I'm not slandering all evolutionists any more than you would be slandering any Christians if you quoted some anti-Semitic speeches or writings by Christians.

Where is your evidence justifying this obvious falsehood?

Where is your evidence for initially claiming that it is a falsehood?

It's a form of scientific facism on the part of neo-Darwinists in public education to censor the free speech and writings of other scientists and teachers who scientifically repudiate and discredit some neo-Darwinist theories.

At what time and to whom have we kept any scientific evidence out of what classroom.

What do you think the Dover trial is all about, Grumpy, if not suppression of scientific testimony and evidence in public schools by neo-Darwinist facists in public education?

This is just a strawman erected to further your cause.

While on the subject of "strawmen," Grumpy, let's include neo-Darwinist 'ape-men.'

Anyone can submit anything to peer review and if it survives it will be accepted by the scientific community.

If it survives, Grumpy? How can any scientific research not based on 'natural selection' survive natural rejection by an elite coterie of "peer-reviewed" naturalists on the editorial board of Nature or Scientific American?

After all every theory now taught in public schools had to go through the same process.

A process somewhat similar to selection and election to the R.C College of Cardinals.

Of course, if the evidence doesn't support the theory it is not valid.

What's not valid? The theory, the evidence or both?

Would you have falsehoods taught as truths???

Certainly not! That's why I'm against the teaching of neo-Darwinist racial theories of human evolution in public schools and museums.

You have absolutely no evidence to support your false accusations of fasism, you just do it in an attempt to denigrate your opponents. It's called bearing false witness.

How can telling the truth be called "bearing false witness?" Isn't that what the Pharisees accused Jesus of?

Even labeling the first African people on earth (H. habilis) as an 'extinct species,' is racist.

It isn't racist to point out the forebearers of ALL people(without exception) came from Africa ...

Yes, it is, Grumpy, especially when neo-Darwinist racial theorists deny racial variation within the human species, and substitute a false concept of human 'species' in their place.

... we are all one race, one species, one people, that's the truth that evolution teaches us and that won't change no matter how many lies(false witness) are told about the matter.

Yes, Grumpy, we are all one human race, one human species one human people, thanks be to God, despite neo-Darwinist racial theories that our human ancestors weren't.

Science is based on facts, religion and philosophy are based on beliefs.

Sure, sure, Grumpy. Where's your scientific evidence to substantiate that religious and philosophical belief?

Or are you going to tell us that math has a philosophy???

Of course, Grumpy, since mathematics and philosophy only exist on the same ideal plane as religion.

What is the religion of 2+2???

What do you mean by 2? Is two one divided or doubled?

What principle of behavior is represented by the number 42(you Douglas Adams fans keep the answer to yourselves)??? If you can't tell the difference your not qualified to debate these subjects.

Never heard of Doug Adams. Where did he get his last name from anyway? African Eve's husband? Ooops! I just disqualified myself from scientific discussions on human origins.

Chill out, Grumpy. Your anger is clouding your 'common' sense and scientific judgement.

It's your morals and scientific judgement which are in question here.

Why do you assume that I have any morals to begin with, any more than a half-wit's capacity for "scientific judgement?"

You have shown little evidence of either.

Evidence, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, non?

I'm willing to debate scientific principles all day long but I insist you behave in a moral manner.

As a scientist, where, when and how did you discover the existence of morals?

You learn that lesson and we'll get along just fine, you don't and we won't, nor will I be silent about your reprehensable, false accusations.
Grumpy

Why should anyone take the moral advice of someone who is in a perpetual state of anger? Are you incapable of pressing the emoticon for a smile every now and then, just to let the rest of know that you enjoy the natural range of emotions that other human beings besides yourself feel?

Loosen up, boy, otherwise you on the road to neo-Darwinist extinction.

[Grumpy]

jcrawford

Where is your evidence for initially claiming that it is a falsehood?

Your the one claiming evolutionists are racist, Prove it or shut up.

What do you think the Dover trial is all about, Grumpy, if not suppression of scientific testimony and evidence in public schools by neo-Darwinist facists in public education?

It's about the Constitution and the separation of church and state. The Supreme Court ruled creationism a religion, creationism light(ID. There's no God in here, wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean) doesn't fool anyone. Neither the CSBS nor ID is a science, and there is no supporting scientific evidence for either.

If it survives, Grumpy? How can any scientific research not based on 'natural selection' survive natural rejection by an elite coterie of "peer-reviewed" naturalists on the editorial board of Nature or Scientific American?

By providing valid scientific evidence, just like Einstein had to do to support Relativity. He proves it can be done, just not with pseudo scientific junk like that produced by adherents of creationism.

If you mean that like the RCC scientists insure that the theories that are accepted are really supported by the scientific evidence, your correct. Invalid theories(like the CSBS) not supported by scientific evidence are rejected, as they should be.

What's not valid? The theory, the evidence or both?

If the evidence is not valid, the theory is not supported, therefore invalid.

Sure, sure, Grumpy. Where's your scientific evidence to substantiate that religious and philosophical belief?

Ask and you shall receive. It's a scientific fact, no belief required.

http://radicalacademy.com/adlersciphil1.htm

Why should anyone take the moral advice of someone who is in a perpetual state of anger? Are you incapable of pressing the emoticon for a smile every now and then, just to let the rest of know that you enjoy the natural range of emotions that other human beings besides yourself feel?

My nickname was given to me by my students and has more to do with appearance than attitude. It takes good humor to deal with recalcitrant students who insist on being wrong despite great effort on my part. Sometimes there is no hope they will ever learn anything because they already know the answer to everything, those take the most patience of all.

Grumpy