Is life is meaningless for atheists?

[ShieldAxe]

Why do some people think life is meaningless for atheists (and agnostics)? Atheists don't believe the universe was created by an intelligence for a purpose, but why does that make their life meaningless? Why does it make life in general meaningless? I think most atheists believe their life has a purpose, but its a purpose of their own choosing. In general I think most atheists believe their is a general purpose to life and that is to make the world a better place - to leave it better than the way you found it. If an atheist believes this, what are atheists lacking that makes life meaningless?

If you believe god created the universe for a purpose, what is it? Is it so we can worship him? Does worshipping god make life worth living? I don't see why the presence of a god makes anyone think life has more worth. If you suddenly learned there was no god would that make you behave any differently? Would you feel life was worthless?

I feel that if there is a god and he created the universe and us so he can be worshipped, that makes life seem pretty darn meaningless. That's it? We're here so we can pray to him? If we arose because of a random event say, think how special that is. Think how lucky we are to even be here.

[Chad]

I'm sorry, Chad. I should have made it clear. I wrote it.

I guess that changes things a little then, doesn't it?

Anyways, I thought the website itself was nicely put together, kudos on that.

I will not respond to all of it, but I will respond to the last part....

I
The atheist is left with the illusion of "meaning," which he allows himself to enjoy against reason: "Eat, drink and be merry." But he suppresses what he knows to be true: that he was created by God for a purpose, namely, to know God and enjoy a personal relationship with Him. This truth he suppresses, and replaces with the assumption that he is the judge of truth and is the autonomous determiner of his purpose. But he will be forever frustrated in his endeavors, because he has forsaken the true purpose for his existence, and thus, though he may construct meaning for himself, he will not experience true meaning. As Pascal said "There is a God-shaped vacuum in every heart" that only God can fill.

I'm far from being left with an illusion of meaning. Infact, just about any Atheist/Agnostic would probably look at it as those who believe in God to have an illusion of meaning. I make my own meaning in life. I don't need a God to give my life meaning, and the meaning in my life isn't an illusion. I deal with life as it goes. I'm also not suppressing an urge to think that I was created by God for a purpose. I have done a lot of research on different aspects of biology and science, and the more I read the more the more it all makes sense. I have no reason to assume a God when there is absolutely no evidence for it.

I must say, the last few sentences of that paragraph I quoted are the complete opposite of what I actually feel. I don't feel as if my meaning is any less true from when I was a Christian. I've actually given my life greater meaning from dropping Christianity. I've learned so much and read much more than I ever would have if I didn't start questioning my faith. If there's any void I have to fill, it's a void of knowledge that my belief in God created.

[harvey1]

I've learned so much and read much more than I ever would have if I didn't start questioning my faith. If there's any void I have to fill, it's a void of knowledge that my belief in God created.

I don't understand that at all, Chad. Why would you blame something other than yourself for a void of knowledge? I'm sure that whatever denomination you were involved in there are many well-educated Christians. I personally don't think my quest for knowledge has ever been hampered by my theist convictions.

[Chad]

I don't understand that at all, Chad. Why would you blame something other than yourself for a void of knowledge? I'm sure that whatever denomination you were involved in there are many well-educated Christians. I personally don't think my quest for knowledge has ever been hampered by my theist convictions.

You're right, in the end it comes down to only myself to blame for a void of knowledge. However, my belief in God at the time actually halted myself from thinking further about a lot of scientific concepts. I think it had something to do with that I didn't feel there was a need for it to be explained any further at that point in time. I thought the questions were answered already. However, I realized that there was much more to learn than I thought. I talk only of my situation though.

I'm not saying that there aren't any well educated Christians. One of my best friends is a Christian, and I consider him very smart and well educated.

One thing I noticed lately is how little a large majority of people, regardless of religion, I encounter care about science and what it has to show about life and the Universe. Of course, I can't expect everyone to have the same interest in Science, but there are some concepts that really could should be more commonly taught. I really blame our education systems for this though. I actually had to teach myself about evolution. Why? Because my high school didn't feel it was important enough to teach and they didn't want to offend anyones religious views. At the time, I was interested in them doing an Evolution unit, but didn't think much of it when I found out it wasn't going to be taught. Only now do I realize how unfortunate I was for them to pass it over.

It's clear that a large number of people, in the USA at least, could care less about science and don't have much interest in it or want to learn it at all. This is evident by the large controversy with the Intelligent Design movement. Here in America, 42% of the people here think that living things have existed in their present form, rejecting the Theory of Evolution. Only 26% fully feel that Evolution by means of natural selection is correct. That is astonishing to me. This is a scientific theory we are talking about. I really hope we start to step up our education system, but I don't see that happening under our current administration.

[ShieldAxe]

Does worshipping god make life worth living? I don't see why the presence of a god makes anyone think life has more worth.

Worshiping God grants hope for the future (heaven; an afterlife) and a purposeful method by which to attain that gift. It is statistically proven that athiests are generally less happy than the religious, and this lack of hope no doubt contributes to that.

I have a much higher tolerance of personal dillemas as a Christian. My set of beliefs enables me to better work through my problems in the hopes of seeing a better day. It's no wonder the vast majority of suicide victims seem to have lacked a religious foundation in their lives.

I believe that religion has done wonders for humanity, and should never be negated as a prime uniting factor of civilized society. It is unfortunate that it is often given a bad reputation result of a small faction who wish to impose their convictions on others.

But whether the God figure really exists matters not in principle. A person's beliefs will make him happier regardless to whether or not they happen to correspond with reality.

I understand that your religion gives sense of comfort in some instances, but that is not same as giving life a purpose. You are also saying it gives you the goal of getting to heaven. Now this is a purpose. Is this the salient purpose in the average christian's life? Other Christians on this forum have strongly denied that. That leaves me a bit confused.

[ShieldAxe]

I've learned so much and read much more than I ever would have if I didn't start questioning my faith. If there's any void I have to fill, it's a void of knowledge that my belief in God created.

I don't understand that at all, Chad. Why would you blame something other than yourself for a void of knowledge? I'm sure that whatever denomination you were involved in there are many well-educated Christians. I personally don't think my quest for knowledge has ever been hampered by my theist convictions.

Harvey, surely you would agree that people are influenced by many things in life. Is it so hard to see that religion in general opposes an attitude of skepticism and clashes with an chastises science time and again? Ultimately the individual is responsible but there are positive and negative influences. Chad was not blaming religion solely for his less inquisitive past, but only saying it was an impediment. After all, who are the people pushing intelligent design and burning Harry Potter books?

[The Persnickety Platypus]

I understand that your religion gives sense of comfort in some instances, but that is not same as giving life a purpose. You are also saying it gives you the goal of getting to heaven. Now this is a purpose. Is this the salient purpose in the average christian's life? Other Christians on this forum have strongly denied that. That leaves me a bit confused.

Objectives will vary from Christian to Christian, naturally. It probably is not accurate to pend my views to those of others, as I am a rather rare breed. I wouldn't say getting to heaven is necissarily my salient purpose; seems like a selfish goal. I suppose my prevalent ambition would be to help others, and I feel Christianity helps me attain that. Maybe I can help some others get into heaven with me, if such a place exists.

The point is, a 'God' figure has a number of good personal uses; comfort, purpose, and ethical improvement amoung the most customary.

Is it so hard to see that religion in general opposes an attitude of skepticism and clashes with an chastises science time and again?

I definetly see that, unfortunately. The religious seem particularly prone to closed-mindedness. A typical Christian is born into his/her religion, and is told what to believe from the beginning. Never is he/she told to evaluate what is taught, and consequently, the person never sees any need to. When presented an alternative explanation with convincing evidence to boot, denial ensues.

Fortunately, it does not have to be this way. I was raised in the very scenario illustrated above, yet somewhere along the line managed to venture outside the preordained doctrine. I have gone through various stages of athiesm, and am undoubtedly the most liberal individual in my congregation, a characteristic which I bestow solely upon my involvement on the internet examining viewpoints outside my home sphere of influence. It's too bad all Christians are not presented early on with a chance encounter with an opposing worldview as I was, or closed mindedness might not be such an issue.

[ShieldAxe]

Objectives will vary from Christian to Christian, naturally. It probably is not accurate to pend my views to those of others, as I am a rather rare breed. I wouldn't say getting to heaven is necissarily my salient purpose; seems like a selfish goal. I suppose my prevalent ambition would be to help others, and I feel Christianity helps me attain that. Maybe I can help some others get into heaven with me, if such a place exists.

The point is, a 'God' figure has a number of good personal uses; comfort, purpose, and ethical improvement amoung the most customary.

That's a view I've heard before, that the goal to get to heaven is sort of selfish so christians say it's not their life's purpose. If that's true how does christianity or god give you a purpose any different than an atheist's purpose. You said 'to help others' was your prevalent ambition. How is that any different than the average atheist or average human for that matter?

[Ami]

I have been wondering about this topic myself; albeit on the other side. Just some things I have thought over time on this;

In general I think most atheists believe their is a general purpose to life and that is to make the world a better place - to leave it better than the way you found it.

As do many religionists. But I have always wondered; what if you feel that you can't make life a better place? What if that one goal turns out to be something that you can't reach? What if you felt that as long as you lived you were going to simply make everything worse?

If you believe god created the universe for a purpose, what is it? Is it so we can worship him? Does worshipping god make life worth living? I don't see why the presence of a god makes anyone think life has more worth.

You may or may not have a wife or a husband or boyfriend or a girlfriend. Those who worship theirs seem to think loving them and being with them makes life worth living.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

That's a view I've heard before, that the goal to get to heaven is sort of selfish so christians say it's not their life's purpose. If that's true how does christianity or god give you a purpose any different than an atheist's purpose. You said 'to help others' was your prevalent ambition. How is that any different than the average atheist or average human for that matter?

I would contend that most "average humans" wouldn't consider their lifes ambition to be to help others. Their actions sure don't reflect it, at any rate.

Athiests have no absolute set of moral guidelines governing their lives. I believe that they are therefore more prone to revert back to the self-centered animal instinct. The Bible on the other hand, commands us to help others, and gives a consequence for not doing so.

In this way, I have more ambition and incintive as a Christian than I would an athiest. I never said Christianity is necissarily my lifes purpose, but rather, it helps me to attain that purpose. Anyway, surely I am allowed more that one goal? I would still like to get to heaven... assuming such a place exists.

[ShieldAxe]

That's a view I've heard before, that the goal to get to heaven is sort of selfish so christians say it's not their life's purpose. If that's true how does christianity or god give you a purpose any different than an atheist's purpose. You said 'to help others' was your prevalent ambition. How is that any different than the average atheist or average human for that matter?

I would contend that most "average humans" wouldn't consider their lifes ambition to be to help others. Their actions sure don't reflect it, at any
rate.

Yeah that's pretty much true i'd say.

Athiests have no absolute set of moral guidelines governing their lives.

I started another thread to discuss this. The absolute moral guidlines do not exist as far as i can tell. http://www.debatingchristianity.com/for ... php?t=2355

I believe that they are therefore more prone to revert back to the self-centered animal instinct.

You don't think this applies to everyone? I do. This is a general rule for humans. I don't think you can make this claim without data nor do i think its true. I think everyone's got their own morality and they sometimes stray from it.

You're basically saying atheists are more likely to be bad people. Which implies if you suddenly discovered god was not real, you would start doing bad things.

The Bible on the other hand, commands us to help others, and gives a consequence for not doing so.

In this way, I have more ambition and incintive as a Christian than I would an athiest. I never said Christianity is necissarily my lifes purpose, but rather, it helps me to attain that purpose. Anyway, surely I am allowed more that one goal? I would still like to get to heaven... assuming such a place exists.

Yes you have more incentive because of the heavenly reward. That goes back to 'the goal is heaven' again.