Why do some people think life is meaningless for atheists (and agnostics)? Atheists don't believe the universe was created by an intelligence for a purpose, but why does that make their life meaningless? Why does it make life in general meaningless? I think most atheists believe their life has a purpose, but its a purpose of their own choosing. In general I think most atheists believe their is a general purpose to life and that is to make the world a better place - to leave it better than the way you found it. If an atheist believes this, what are atheists lacking that makes life meaningless?
If you believe god created the universe for a purpose, what is it? Is it so we can worship him? Does worshipping god make life worth living? I don't see why the presence of a god makes anyone think life has more worth. If you suddenly learned there was no god would that make you behave any differently? Would you feel life was worthless?
I feel that if there is a god and he created the universe and us so he can be worshipped, that makes life seem pretty darn meaningless. That's it? We're here so we can pray to him? If we arose because of a random event say, think how special that is. Think how lucky we are to even be here.
Is life is meaningless for atheists?
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Post #32
I don't think anyone can really assess the general goodness or badness of theists/atheists by referring to their own personal experiences. Even the most social of us will not have enough in-depth knowledge of others to obtain a satisfactory statistical sample. But this is a deviation from the original topic!
It seems to me that this question of God giving "meaning" to the lives of those believing in his existence is highly dependent on our perception of the world in the first place. The simple fact that we exist makes it self-evident that there's a creator for many people and, in the familiar realm of human activity, things are only ever created for a purpose (such are the constraints of life). But this could in fact be quite peculiar to our own conscious will. For example I would point out that the whole evolution of life can be understood in terms of the playing-out of self-organizing principles with no more intent than that of mountains creating rivers.
On the other hand, if we start out with the premise that God created the entire universe (and more particularly) the Earth's biosphere with the specific intention that it would produce and support us as the object of his creation, then we would rightly consider ourselves to be put here on purpose. However if this is to be any more than a product of supreme vanity then we need some independent confirmation that we are indeed the pinnacle of evolution. I personally would not trust such matters solely to the testimony of other men.
Such confirmation is hard, if not impossible, to come by. Were man, for example, to become extinct tomorrow the rest of the biosphere (apart from a few breeds of domesticated animals) would carry on quite comfortably without us. But this doesn't count for evidence against our being here on purpose, it might just show how robustly God's world has been devised.
So without any further evidence I think it's a specious claim to say that we are here on purpose and that we therefore have some extra special meaning to our lives.
It seems to me that this question of God giving "meaning" to the lives of those believing in his existence is highly dependent on our perception of the world in the first place. The simple fact that we exist makes it self-evident that there's a creator for many people and, in the familiar realm of human activity, things are only ever created for a purpose (such are the constraints of life). But this could in fact be quite peculiar to our own conscious will. For example I would point out that the whole evolution of life can be understood in terms of the playing-out of self-organizing principles with no more intent than that of mountains creating rivers.
On the other hand, if we start out with the premise that God created the entire universe (and more particularly) the Earth's biosphere with the specific intention that it would produce and support us as the object of his creation, then we would rightly consider ourselves to be put here on purpose. However if this is to be any more than a product of supreme vanity then we need some independent confirmation that we are indeed the pinnacle of evolution. I personally would not trust such matters solely to the testimony of other men.
Such confirmation is hard, if not impossible, to come by. Were man, for example, to become extinct tomorrow the rest of the biosphere (apart from a few breeds of domesticated animals) would carry on quite comfortably without us. But this doesn't count for evidence against our being here on purpose, it might just show how robustly God's world has been devised.
So without any further evidence I think it's a specious claim to say that we are here on purpose and that we therefore have some extra special meaning to our lives.
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Cephus
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Post #34
If you want to generalize, atheists are good because they want the world to be a better place. Theists are good because they think they're going to get rewarded in some mythical afterlife. It really doesn't matter, in the strictest terms, to the theist what the world is like because they believe it's all transitory.Ami wrote:But the atheist's life has meaning too; to do good, to try to make the world a better place. That has been mentioned. So life isn't entirely meaningless. It is mostly dependant on success though I assume.
Post #35
I believe that is what I saidIf you want to generalize, atheists are good because they want the world to be a better place
Not all of them. Jews that lived before Christ, for example, didn't even consider an afterlife much.Theists are good because they think they're going to get rewarded in some mythical afterlife.
As for those who do base things of of a reward in an afterlife, it does not always depend on them being theist or worshipping (a) God.
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Cathar1950
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Post #36
Ami wrote:
I tend to think we as humans live life with meaning and look for it. It is part of our nature evolution or God given or both.
It seems some dualist might think this life is meaningless and I wonder at the usefulness of this idea.
Good point and it is true. On the other hand they felt one was blessed in this life from living right. Of course Job was an example of thoughts that this was not true because people do not always suffer because of sins in this life. The interesting thing about the bible is the many ideas often in conflict that are presented. For some of these people the oldest ideas were that we were clay pots fill of air(wind) and when we died the wind went back to God. In Greek thought the wind becomes a spirit living in the clay pot. The the idea of the soul or spirit. Dualism in it's infancy. The Greeks and the Hebrews may have picked this up from the Persians.Not all of them. Jews that lived before Christ, for example, didn't even consider an afterlife much.
I tend to think we as humans live life with meaning and look for it. It is part of our nature evolution or God given or both.
It seems some dualist might think this life is meaningless and I wonder at the usefulness of this idea.
