Fornication. What really is the problem with it?

[OnceConvinced]

In another thread I was talking about sexual urges and how our inherent human nature kicks in when it comes to sex. Automatically the Christian I was debating with assumed I was talking about some form of infidelity and that infidelity had serious consequences. I agreed. However fornication is far more than just adultry. Fornication includes any type of pre-marital sex too.

So if two consenting, SINGLE adults decide ot have premarital sex and they use protection, what really is the problem with it? Why is it so wrong and what are the ramifications. And please don't bother with the answer "Because God says it's wrong". Let's try to apply some reasoning and logic to this.

Why is it so sinful?

What are the ramifications of doing it?

If there are ramifications just how serious are they and how likely are they to occur?

[Goat]

Why is it so sinful?

Why would you say cheating on a test is wrong?

And how is that a valid analogy?

[Defender of Truth]

And how is that a valid analogy?

The validity of the analogical illustration lies within the fact that cheating on a test is considered "wrong". Fornication is also considered "wrong". I'm asking what makes cheating on a test "wrong", and seeing whether the same test applies to whether or not "fornication" is wrong.

Christian's would say that cheating on a test is wrong because God said so. They would then compare fornication to the same standard as cheating on a test (God) and then conclude that fornication is wrong as well.


I'm asking for the evidence he has the cheating on a test is wrong, and then according to his logic we can see whether fornication is wrong.

[Goat]

And how is that a valid analogy?

The validity of the analogical illustration lies within the fact that cheating on a test is considered "wrong". Fornication is also considered "wrong". I'm asking what makes cheating on a test "wrong", and seeing whether the same test applies to whether or not "fornication" is wrong.

Christian's would say that cheating on a test is wrong because God said so. They would then compare fornication to the same standard as cheating on a test (God) and then conclude that fornication is wrong as well.


I'm asking for the evidence he has the cheating on a test is wrong, and then according to his logic we can see whether fornication is wrong.

Can you give me evidence that 'God Said so' aside from self promoting religious texts?

[McCulloch]

Christian's would say that cheating on a test is wrong because God said so. They would then compare fornication to the same standard as cheating on a test (God) and then conclude that fornication is wrong as well.

Really? Where is it that God says that cheating on a test is wrong? I suppose, let your yes be yes and your no be no, but that is in context of oaths. Bearing false witness?

I'm asking for the evidence he has the cheating on a test is wrong, and then according to his logic we can see whether fornication is wrong.

Cheating on a test is wrong because if cheating were allowed, it would defeat the purpose of the test, being to honestly determine whether the subject knew the material. If there are consequences of the test, then cheating on the test may also violate the principle of fairness.

Now, let's apply the principle to fornication. Does fornication defeat the purpose of sex? Yes, if you assume that sex is only for procreation. Does fornication violate the principle of fairness?

[Defender of Truth]

Can you give me evidence that 'God Said so' aside from self promoting religious texts?

I never said anything about God. I asked why cheating was wrong and you haven't given me an answer yet.

[Goat]

Can you give me evidence that 'God Said so' aside from self promoting religious texts?

I never said anything about God. I asked why cheating was wrong and you haven't given me an answer yet.

You mean you forgot this quote

[quote='Defender of Truth"]
Christian's would say that cheating on a test is wrong because God said so. They would then compare fornication to the same standard as cheating on a test (God) and then conclude that fornication is wrong as well.
[/quote]

I would say, yes you did mention God.

[Defender of Truth]

Where is it that God says that cheating on a test is wrong?

A Christian answer to Cheating: Cheating is the act or practice of dishonesty. It is the willful disregard of the law or rules, stated or morally determined, for one's personal gain or advancement. The new Webster's dictionary states, "one cheats by direct and gross falsehood." Also, a cheat is a deceiver, a swindler. Cheating involves stealing (improperly and dishonestly obtaining that which is not one's own) and is, therefore, in complete opposition to God's biblical standards of truth and personal behavior. Simply stated, cheating is sin.

Key verses: "You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another."
"You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him"
"You shall do not injustice in judgement, in measurement of length, weight, or volume."
"You shall have just balances, just weights..."
"A false balance is an abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is His delight."
"Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD, but those who deal truthfully are His delight."

Cheating on a test is wrong because if cheating were allowed, it would defeat the purpose of the test, being to honestly determine whether the subject knew the material. If there are consequences of the test, then cheating on the test may also violate the principle of fairness.

Uh... Cheating's wrong because it violates the principle of fairness?

Fairness is

free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice

So basically you're saying cheating's wrong because it's dishonest and unjust. Okay... Well, unjust is the opposite of just which means, according to the dictionary

guided by truth, reason, justice, and fairness

So, using the Reflexive property of equality we could say "Cheating is wrong because it's unfair". Well what's wrong with being unfair? Unfairness is unjust! Well what's wrong with injustice? It's not fair!

I don't accept "Begging the question" as a legitimate reason for cheating being wrong.


A principle is a

fundamental, primary, or general law or truth from which others are derived

Are you saying there's a fundamental truth of morality to which we must adapt? You're saying I need to be honest? What if I don't want to?

You mean you forgot this quote

Christian's would say that cheating on a test is wrong because God said so. They would then compare fornication to the same standard as cheating on a test (God) and then conclude that fornication is wrong as well.

I would say, yes you did mention God.

I mentioned it inasmuch as you mentioned it. I simply stated that it's what Christian's say. I'm not discussing whether Christian's, or my views are correct, I'm discussing whether or not Fornication is wrong according to the original poster's comment.

[Goat]

I mentioned it inasmuch as you mentioned it. I simply stated that it's what Christian's say. I'm not discussing whether Christian's, or my views are correct, I'm discussing whether or not Fornication is wrong according to the original poster's comment.

I challenge you to point to the post on this thread that I mention god before you did.

[Defender of Truth]

I challenge you to point to the post on this thread that I mention god before you did.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to decline the challenge because it is totally irrelevant to the discussion. No one ever claimed that you mentioned God before I did. Let's look at what was said.

I mentioned it inasmuch as you mentioned it.

The usage of the "in as much" contraction means "in like manner", or "in the same way". It does not mean "after". When I mentioned God I was (1) replying to McCulloch's post, and before that (2) verifying the legitimacy of my analogy by using the example of God. Therefore, neither of us used the word "God" in the context of it being the standard of morality. Of course you know I believe this from other topics, but I never mentioned that here.

I never said I supported the view. Therefore you asking me to give evidence for it is the same as me asking you for evidence of it.

[OnceConvinced]

One name

Bristol Palin

Never heard of her. But I did look it up on Wikipedia. I don't see your point though.