Is it right to judge Christianity based on Christians?

Confused · Post by **Confused** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:07 am

Moderators, unsure where to put this, so if this is the wrong forum index, please feel free to move as you see fit.

It seems to me that I have invested a lot of energy in trying to find the truth of Christianity by comparing scripture with current Christians. I didn't realize until yesterday when the last local church in this area told me it was impossible to minister to my son because he was beyond their resources. Now, in my defense, I got pissed but for good reasons. My son is a handful yes, but he is in a special education class for children with emotional and behavioral disorders (autism/aspergers/severe ADHD) and function moderately ok. He has his days when he is defiant or when the stimulation is to high and he breaks down and essentially goes into a vegetative state for an unknown period of time (average 8-12 hours) where theoretically he restarts his system. The education system is mandated by law to provide this service. My anger results from that fact that religion is suppose to be held to higher standards. The standards of God. For a church (and this was a large church) to turn away a 7 year old boy was appalling to me. But it is the 5th church to do so. So last night I was on a path of vengeance. I was judging every Christian I knew and using their hypocrisy to discount the scripture. It got me wondering.

Is it right to judge Christianity based on the sole actions of Christians? I am aware of the discrepancies that exist in the Bible. But I am not judging scripture alone here. I am judging scripture and Christians together. Is it right? Any thoughts?

Mark_W · Post by **Mark_W** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:12 pm

I would say that Christianity should be judged by the intrinsic reasonableness (or unreasonableness, depending on how you define Christianity) of the teaching, rather than the people who profess to live by the Christian teaching (because they may be mistaken as to what this teaching is).
Just as if Hitler told me 2+2 = 4, I would have to believe him. So should we judge ideas and teachings such as Christianity, with the faith that only good can come from truth.

Nick_A · Post by **Nick_A** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:39 am

Hi confused

Is it right to judge Christianity based on the sole actions of Christians? I am aware of the discrepancies that exist in the Bible. But I am not judging scripture alone here. I am judging scripture and Christians together. Is it right? Any thoughts?

I think we make a mistake when we do not acknowledge quality in Christianity. A Christian for me isn't someone claiming to be a Christian but one who follows the precepts of Christ. Someone interested in it but unable to do it natural for the fallen human condition I call a pre-Christian.

Would you judge the worth of classical piano by listening to a bad pianist claiming to be a musician? No. It is the same with Christianity. We accept expressions of man made Christianity as the value of Christianity itself. This is like equating a skilled classical pianist with a tone deaf beginner. Kierkegaard termed man made Christianity Christendom. This is what we are normally exposed to and define as Christianity.

So IMO you could judge Christianity by the actions of Christians. But first, though there are many pre-Christians, it is hard to find Christians. We also have to rediscover Christianity so as to discriminate between Christianity and Christendom.

As you can see it is not easy and requires a real need to understand at the expense of ones preconceptions rather than seek self justification offered by Christendom.

steen · Post by **steen** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:36 am

Nick_A wrote:I think we make a mistake when we do not acknowledge quality in Christianity. A Christian for me isn't someone claiming to be a Christian but one who follows the precepts of Christ. Someone interested in it but unable to do it natural for the fallen human condition I call a pre-Christian.

So you are trying to say that God makes a distinction, that some that are more "holy" are also better in God's eyes? WHERE in the Bible did you find that idea? the Bible is full of God's message of us all being equal in God's eye. Your claim smacks of wanting to be more "rewarded" by God by being "better." It goes directly against the Bible, it is a call for the pharisees.

Nick_A · Post by **Nick_A** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 pm

So you are trying to say that God makes a distinction, that some that are more "holy" are also better in God's eyes? WHERE in the Bible did you find that idea? the Bible is full of God's message of us all being equal in God's eye. Your claim smacks of wanting to be more "rewarded" by God by being "better." It goes directly against the Bible, it is a call for the Pharisees.

The problem is not with God but rather with us. As we are, we are cut off from help from above. The human condition of the "Wretched Man" as described by Paul in Romans 7 defines our "being." This is what we ARE. The Pharisees disregard this and assert the importance of what we DO but our nature makes us incapable of being other than hypocrites. The importance of Christianity is it allows for us to change what we ARE so that we can be noticed by and helped from above.

This is not some moral judgment but only opening and expanding the God/Man connection that is blocked by our acquired inner chaos. Meister Eckhart explains it in a way that allows the idea to live for those open to it.

"People should not worry as much about what they do but rather about what they are. If they and their ways are good, then their deeds are radiant. If you are righteous, then what you do will also be righteous. We should not think that holiness is based on what we do but rather on what we are, for it is not our works which sanctify us but we who sanctify our works."

Where the emphasis of Christendom is on what we DO in relation to imposed moral dictates, Christianity is concerned with what we ARE in relation to our potential. Re-birth is the process of the change of what we ARE so as to become our potential

steen · Post by **steen** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:02 pm

Nick_A wrote:
So you are trying to say that God makes a distinction, that some that are more "holy" are also better in God's eyes? WHERE in the Bible did you find that idea? the Bible is full of God's message of us all being equal in God's eye. Your claim smacks of wanting to be more "rewarded" by God by being "better." It goes directly against the Bible, it is a call for the Pharisees.
The problem is not with God but rather with us. As we are, we are cut off from help from above. The human condition of the "Wretched Man" as described by Paul in Romans 7 defines our "being." This is what we ARE. The Pharisees disregard this and assert the importance of what we DO but our nature makes us incapable of being other than hypocrites. The importance of Christianity is it allows for us to change what we ARE so that we can be noticed by and helped from above.

This is not some moral judgment but only opening and expanding the God/Man connection that is blocked by our acquired inner chaos. Meister Eckhart explains it in a way that allows the idea to live for those open to it.

It is a judgment YOU made, God didn't. And yes, it IS a narcissistic moral judgment, the idea that some are "more" Christian because they look more like you.

"People should not worry as much about what they do but rather about what they are. If they and their ways are good, then their deeds are radiant. If you are righteous, then what you do will also be righteous. We should not think that holiness is based on what we do but rather on what we are, for it is not our works which sanctify us but we who sanctify our works."
Where the emphasis of Christendom is on what we DO in relation to imposed moral dictates, Christianity is concerned with what we ARE in relation to our potential. Re-birth is the process of the change of what we ARE so as to become our potential

Or rebirth becomes a synonym for people reverting into self-importance and "us vs. them" rather than reaching out to others.