Are you a Good Person?

[servant]

Take the test if you dare:



http://www.livingwaters.com/good/

[stmw]

So believing in Jesus as your personal savior isn't enough. I'm okay with that.

You still haven't answered the question, though; did they go to Heaven, or not? It's "yes" or "no." Very simple.

You not only have to believe in Jesus to be saved, but believe WITH ALL YOUR HEART. Even the devil believes in Jesus.

The 10 commandments can be summed up in 2 laws: Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, soul, and stength. Love your neighbor as yourself.

It's hard for me to believe that people that torture others are in heaven, but I am not God and I don't know.

I like to mention what I read in a book by Catherine Marshall titled the School of Prayer in the chapter the Prayer of Forgiveness. It mentions a Jewish girl in Germany after WWII and she was giving a speech on forgiveness. After she was through, a German young man walked up to her and thanked her message on forgiveness and extended her hand out to her. Her arm froze, but she asked God for supernatural ability to forgive she was able to shake his hand.

[bernee51]

bernee51

there is plenty of evidence in the Bible. Whether you choose to except it as historical information is up to you.

Why should I accept the bible as historical evidence? On what possible grounds can the bible accepted above any other 'scripture' as anything other than myth and metaphor?

Do you accept the Bhagavad Gita as evidence of a conversation between Arjuna and Krishna...one in which Krishna showed his divine nature and gave to Arjuna a formula for self-realization. If not why not?

Do you accept the Koran as a record of a conversation between Mohammed and an angel? If not why not?

The biblical story of the Christ cannot be shown to be anything other than myth and metaphor. Those who claim otherwise are resorting to faith not evidence.

[bernee51]

So...where is Hitler or Stalin?

Worm food.

[Assent]

Who is God to you? Is he only a god of love and mercy who would never judge anyone and never cast anyone into Hell? If that's your god, then you're right. Your god can't cast anyone into Hell because he doesn't exist. He's a figment of your imagination.

I couldn't get past two without cracking up.

2/10. And here I thought, "hey, I haven't committed adultery!" But no, I can't even look at someone...

...He has invited you to come to Him for a full pardon and recieve the free gift of Eternal Life. You cannot earn it, and you do not deserve it, but God is offering it to you as proof of His love for you.

You see, this is what I'm talking about when I mention passive-aggressive religion. "God loves you, but if it were me you'd be BURNING FOREVER IN A PIT OF FIRE AND DARKNESS AND DON'T EVEN ASK ME HOW THAT WORKS IT JUST DOES SO REPENT!!!!"

[OnceConvinced]

So...where is Hitler or Stalin?

Here's a possible scenario:

Judgment Day had arrived. A man floated up to Heaven where he stood and awaited in the crowds for his chance to stand before God to give an account of his life. Another went up to God before him and the man who stood in the crowds was horrified to see who it was. It was Adolf Hitler.
The man stood there marveling, unable to believe that he was about to witness Adolf give an account of his life. He would get to see possibly the world’s most evil man be dragged away to burn in hell.
Adolf approached God, his head hung low in shame.
‘Adolf,’ said God. ‘What makes you think I’d ever let someone like you into Heaven?’
‘You wouldn’t.’ Adolf had tears in his eyes and he fell to his knees. ‘I don’t deserve to go to Heaven. I have done much evil in my life.’
‘That’s an understatement!’ God said. ‘You had hundreds of thousands of people murdered brutally, most of whom are burning in hell now as we speak, because they had no further chances to accept me as their lord and savior! If you hadn’t had them murdered, they might have had a chance to redeem themselves. But you prevented that from happening.’
‘Yes. I realize that,’ bawled Adolf. ‘I have done so many terrible things, but lord, I repented on my deathbed. I realized how evil I had been and I am so sorry.’
‘Yes. I could see that you were sincere when you repented on your deathbed. You are truly sorry for the evil you have done. But your crimes against myself and humanity are so great, don’t you think so, Adolf?’
‘Yes, I realize that.’ Adolf rose slowly to his feet and looked at God. ‘I do not deserve to live. I will take responsibility for my evil acts. I will take any punishment you see fit. I deserve to burn in hell.’
The man watched on, feeling confident that God would have him taken to hell, but was shocked when God placed his hand on Adolf’s shoulder. ‘By your faith Adolf, you are redeemed. Your act of repentance on your deathbed shows me you are sorry for what you’ve done, so I forgave you for your heinous acts. You are righteous in my eyes. Welcome to Heaven, Adolf.’
The man’s jaw dropped as Angel’s came and led a smiling Adolf away. He couldn’t believe it. How could history’s most evil man be going to Heaven after all the things he did?
God motioned the man over. At first the man hesitated, but then with renewed confidence he approached. If a man as evil as Hitler could be shown mercy, then this was truly a merciful God. He would surely not throw him into hell.
‘So what have you done with your life?’ God asked.
‘Well God. I have to admit, I haven’t been perfect. In fact I’ve done some things I’m ashamed of. I’ve lied sometimes, I had pre-marital sex and I’ve told a few dirty jokes here and there, but basically, I’ve been a law-abiding citizen. I’ve given a lot of money to charity. I’ve volunteered my services to help those in need. I’ve given generously of my time and money. I’ve always tried to live a moral life and tried to be a good example to my kids…’
‘But what did you chose to do with me?’
‘I… well God, I never believed in you. I thought you were just a made up concept.’
‘But I sent many people to you, to tell you about me, but yet you continued to reject me.’
‘I didn’t believe them. God. I expected that if you really did exist, you’d be able to show me you exist yourself, not having to send people to do it for you. I mean, you’re supposed to be omnipotent, right? Besides, I’m naturally a skeptical person. That’s the way I was born, I require more proof than just the word around us or the words of someone who claims to know you. I need more than just some book people claim is your word. I guess you made me that way God, so surely you wouldn’t be angry at me for just being the way you created me?’
‘Let me be the judge of that!’ God growled. ‘You rejected me, so why should I accept you into Heaven?’
‘But God, you let Adolf in and he’s…’
‘He repented! You did no such thing!’
‘But…’
‘You had your chances. It’s your choice. You have chosen to be cast into Hell for all eternity.’
‘Chosen? I didn’t choose to. There’s no way I want to go to Hell!’
‘You rejected me and as a result of that, I have no choice but to send you there. I cannot change the rules.’
‘But… but you’re almighty. You made the rules, so you can change them, right?’
‘I can’t.’
‘But…’
‘No more buts. Angels, take this evil sinner away. Let him burn for all eternity in the pits of hell!’

[Goat]

The characteristics usually attributed to a creator deity ensure its illogicity and therefore its non-existence.

Your using Logic not me.

AFAIK no such person exists or has existed. I don't quite get your point.

Not true. Jesus Christ did. He is the only person I know of that has died and rose again. He had a lot to say about the afterlife. Now you most likely dont except this happened but there is plenty of evidence that He was real, did die on that tree and three days later rose again (produce his body and you kill my believe).

That's the thing. I don't believe Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah,and I do not believe he 'rose again'. From experience, I find that 'being raised from the
dead' is an extraordinary claim, and is more along the lines of Osiris, Mithra, Bel, Brahma, and Apollo. I don't believe those Gods died and came back, and I don't
believe Jesus died and came back.

So the burden is placed back on you. Prove He never was alive, prove His body is still in the ground and prove He is not alive today.

Before he can 'prove he never was alive', you first have to prove he was. Then,
you have to show external evidence from scriptures that there was a resurrection.
That seems to be a rather high hurdle. However, what you are doing is the logical
fallacy known as 'shifting the burden of proof'.

Just believing He is not real does not make it a Reality. You can believe all day that gravity will not work and you can't see it, but if you jump off a building you will experience it therefore, knowing it is real. My point - When you die you will experience the truth the reality of the afterlife.

I pray that your heart and mind be opened.

The one thing about Jesus, you can't provide any objective external evidence from the bible that he is real. You can only show claims from a very small number of books written decades after he allegedly 'rose from the dead' that it happened. And those are books that have a theological bias. The difference between claiming the extraordinary event of a resurrection there isn't any evidence FOR , and for the existence of gravity is you can see the effects of gravity every day of your life. So far, I don't see how the claims of the extraordinary event of an alleged resurrection almost 2000 years ago can be demonstrated.

[servant]

Here's a possible scenario:

Judgment Day had arrived. A man floated up to Heaven where he stood and awaited in the crowds for his chance to stand before God to give an account of his life. Another went up to God before him and the man who stood in the crowds was horrified to see who it was. It was Adolf Hitler.
The man stood there marveling, unable to believe that he was about to witness Adolf give an account of his life. He would get to see possibly the world’s most evil man be dragged away to burn in hell.
Adolf approached God, his head hung low in shame.
‘Adolf,’ said God. ‘What makes you think I’d ever let someone like you into Heaven?’
‘You wouldn’t.’ Adolf had tears in his eyes and he fell to his knees. ‘I don’t deserve to go to Heaven. I have done much evil in my life.’
‘That’s an understatement!’ God said. ‘You had hundreds of thousands of people murdered brutally, most of whom are burning in hell now as we speak, because they had no further chances to accept me as their lord and savior! If you hadn’t had them murdered, they might have had a chance to redeem themselves. But you prevented that from happening.’
‘Yes. I realize that,’ bawled Adolf. ‘I have done so many terrible things, but lord, I repented on my deathbed. I realized how evil I had been and I am so sorry.’
‘Yes. I could see that you were sincere when you repented on your deathbed. You are truly sorry for the evil you have done. But your crimes against myself and humanity are so great, don’t you think so, Adolf?’
‘Yes, I realize that.’ Adolf rose slowly to his feet and looked at God. ‘I do not deserve to live. I will take responsibility for my evil acts. I will take any punishment you see fit. I deserve to burn in hell.’
The man watched on, feeling confident that God would have him taken to hell, but was shocked when God placed his hand on Adolf’s shoulder. ‘By your faith Adolf, you are redeemed. Your act of repentance on your deathbed shows me you are sorry for what you’ve done, so I forgave you for your heinous acts. You are righteous in my eyes. Welcome to Heaven, Adolf.’
The man’s jaw dropped as Angel’s came and led a smiling Adolf away. He couldn’t believe it. How could history’s most evil man be going to Heaven after all the things he did?
God motioned the man over. At first the man hesitated, but then with renewed confidence he approached. If a man as evil as Hitler could be shown mercy, then this was truly a merciful God. He would surely not throw him into hell.
‘So what have you done with your life?’ God asked.
‘Well God. I have to admit, I haven’t been perfect. In fact I’ve done some things I’m ashamed of. I’ve lied sometimes, I had pre-marital sex and I’ve told a few dirty jokes here and there, but basically, I’ve been a law-abiding citizen. I’ve given a lot of money to charity. I’ve volunteered my services to help those in need. I’ve given generously of my time and money. I’ve always tried to live a moral life and tried to be a good example to my kids…’
‘But what did you chose to do with me?’
‘I… well God, I never believed in you. I thought you were just a made up concept.’
‘But I sent many people to you, to tell you about me, but yet you continued to reject me.’
‘I didn’t believe them. God. I expected that if you really did exist, you’d be able to show me you exist yourself, not having to send people to do it for you. I mean, you’re supposed to be omnipotent, right? Besides, I’m naturally a skeptical person. That’s the way I was born, I require more proof than just the word around us or the words of someone who claims to know you. I need more than just some book people claim is your word. I guess you made me that way God, so surely you wouldn’t be angry at me for just being the way you created me?’
‘Let me be the judge of that!’ God growled. ‘You rejected me, so why should I accept you into Heaven?’
‘But God, you let Adolf in and he’s…’
‘He repented! You did no such thing!’
‘But…’
‘You had your chances. It’s your choice. You have chosen to be cast into Hell for all eternity.’
‘Chosen? I didn’t choose to. There’s no way I want to go to Hell!’
‘You rejected me and as a result of that, I have no choice but to send you there. I cannot change the rules.’
‘But… but you’re almighty. You made the rules, so you can change them, right?’
‘I can’t.’
‘But…’
‘No more buts. Angels, take this evil sinner away. Let him burn for all eternity in the pits of hell!’
_________________
1 Cor 10:12: Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

Sounds like a possible scenario however, I doubt Hitler was sincere on his death bed but just scared he was dieing and about the face a Holy God. God knows the heart so mere words are not enough.

Why should I accept the bible as historical evidence? On what possible grounds can the bible accepted above any other 'scripture' as anything other than myth and metaphor?

The Jewish Talmud, compiled between 70 and 200 AD:

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."

[Another early reference in the Talmud speaks of five of Jesus's disciples and recounts their standing before judges who make individual decisions about each one, deciding that they should be executed. However, no actual deaths are recorded]

or

Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."

Shifting the burden of will do you no good. It is you making the positive claims...you have not shown that he lived, did die and, most importantly, rose from the dead.

The above information is from Ancient Non-Christian sources which indicate that Jesus "Lived" "Died". Now the question is, if He lived and died like they say, then where is His body?

1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Not believing in God or believing in God that does not punish evil just makes no sense to me based on my moral code. See I believe it is wrong to lie, steal, commit adultery, murder, etc... It seems to me that everyone here that does not believe in God or only believes in a God that does not punish evil is trying to justify evil (sin). You do away with God or a God that has no Hell to do away with the moral law (whats right or whats wrong). The problem is we all know the truth when it comes to whats right and wrong.

[cnorman18]

So...where is Hitler or Stalin?

Here's a possible scenario:

... ‘You had hundreds of thousands of people murdered brutally, most of whom are burning in hell now as we speak, because they had no further chances to accept me as their lord and savior! If you hadn’t had them murdered, they might have had a chance to redeem themselves. But you prevented that from happening.’

Excuse me while I puke.

There. Now, Hitler did not repent on his deathbed. He ate a cyanide pill and blew his brains out with a .25 caliber pistol, and his last communication of record was to urge the continued murder of Jews. Plus, the obvious assumption here that the Jews he had murdered all went to Hell is a bit much to take.

One more time; what are the chances that Jews would become Christians when it has usually been Christians who were torturing and murdering them, and usually explicitly in the name of Christ?

No mercy for them, I see.

[stmw]

Are you certain that Hell exists? If so, how?
Are you certain that Jabberwocky does not exist?

Anyway, it all makes good sense to me.

God created humans in His own image. He put them into a garden and told them if they did a certain thing, there would be really bad consequences. He foreknew that they would do the bad thing and did nothing to prevent it. When they did exactly what God knew that they would do, He cursed them and all of their descendants to eternal torment. But He had a plan. He chose a nomadic tribe to be His people. He instructed them to take some land from some people who lived there and kill them all. And He gave them some rules to live by. They turned away from Him and His rules, just as He knew that they would, so he punished them by taking away their nation. But He promised them that through them, all of the nations of the world would be blessed. So He allowed them to return to their land, but under foreign rule. He then became a human in order that the other humans could kill him, thus appeasing His own wrath against the humans' sin. This act somehow provided the propitiation for sin for all humans, yet even with that, not all humans would be forgiven of their sins. They had to believe something by faith in order to partake of this unconditional forgiveness.

Am I misrepresenting anything?

That's about right.
I put my faith in the bible.
I believe I want to go to heaven, not hell.
So what do you put your faith in? Evolution? That was a story created by Darwin.
Philosophy? I took philosophy in college. There was one thought that goes like this: "If I had a table in the attic, and I was not in my attic, how do I know the table still exists? How do I even know the attic still exists? How do I even know anything exists?" I think this is crazy.

[stmw]

So...where is Hitler or Stalin?

One more time; what are the chances that Jews would become Christians when it has usually been Christians who were torturing and murdering them, and usually explicitly in the name of Christ?

I think Hitler had an anti-christ spirit. I think murdering others in the name of Christ is taking God's name in vain.