My best friends believe that I am going to Hell

[The Humanist Manifesto]

I have grown up with a few close friends. We get along in every aspect of life, except religion. I am an active atheist and my friends are Catholics and Protestants. I've tried getting my convincing and logical arguments through to them but they have long ago closed their eyes of reason so that they can see faith.

We belligerently argued about the topic. I decided that it would be best to not talk about that subject around them because I value our friendship greatly. As an active atheist, I felt disappointed in myself that I wasn't able to communicate persuasively enough to get through to them.

We have great fun outside of the topic but I know in the back of their mind they quite literally believe that I am going to burn in a fiery hell for all eternity.

Honestly, that is very discomforting. How am I supposed to react to that?

They may treat me as an equal but my friends actually believe that they are above me

[melikio]

We belligerently argued about the topic.

When I lost faith, I didn't bother letting certain Christian friends of mine know that I did. I was already tired, tender and raw inside. I'm happy I stayed distant, because few people who have never known deep UN-belief, can relate to what an unbeliever actually feels (and has to go through as a human being, especially if they've been taught that "belief" in God or the Bible is the ONLY way). I know that MANY Christians (not all) have a hard time with certain people, because they aren't taught to deal with unbelievers in proper and humane ways; it's a spiritual problem that shows itself culturally/socially.

I decided that it would be best to not talk about that subject around them because I value our friendship greatly.

When a Christian friend of mine became an atheist, I had THE most emotionally difficult time with it; I thought, HOW could that happen??!! Well, I eventually found out for myself, when the religion I'd trusted in for nearly 30 years, stopped making real sense to me; everything kind of 'deflated', and I couldn't pump it back up, because I saw serious holes in my own faith.

Many people can talk religion on the intellectual level, but fail to offer something that can actually convince a person's heart. This is true of people arguing on ALL sides of the typical issues related to religion. Really, we can only share our opinions; those of us who "believe", cannot presume to speak for God Himself (although some have foolishly attempted to).

As an active atheist, I felt disappointed in myself that I wasn't able to communicate persuasively enough to get through to them.

The truth is, that we can surely manipulate others. My freind had an excellent mind, but I could sense he was vulnerable in certain areas of his unbelief, just as I was in areas of my belief.

I recommend that no matter the argument being made, it is important to put LOVE (caring practically for the person) first. Most honest people will admit in certain ways, that they have had struggles with belief or unbelief. I personally think that God understands this, and isn't literally 'freaked-out' by it (as many Christians unfortunately tend to be).

There are probably more than a few people, who go to church every Sun., sit and listen, go through the motions of their religion... yet do NOT actually "believe" (in their hearts. Today, if a Christian tells me I'm going to "Hell", I'd let them think that, and also assure them that God is the only person who can verify or make that a reality. As many human beings tend to do, they will use FEAR to compel others to move toward their own views. I don't think that is something that Jesus Himself would approve of overall.

-Mel-

[sojouner]

sorry to disappoint you but everyone when they die goes to hell
Christian and non Christian alike.
In scripture the english word "HELL" simply means to cover as in the word HELmet
(HEAD COVER)
Jesus Himself was in HELL for three days
The problem is what you have been told what hell is
there are 4 words in scripture that have been translated Hell(in the king james for reference)
1 Hebrew word =Sheol which simply means grave or a pit
2The greek equivalent is hades
3 tartaros which means abyss which appears only once in scripture
4 gehenna which is a valley on the east side(Ithink) of jerusalem so is an actual place we can visit today
Gehenna simply means the valley of the son of Hinnom
and in the days of Jesus was the place where they threw their rubbish to be burnt
also unclaimed criminals bodies were throwin to be burnt as a way of disposal
hope this clears up some missunderstandings that most of humanity has on what hell is and is'nt
Like this has got a hope in hell LOLOLO

[The Humanist Manifesto]

sorry to disappoint you but everyone when they die goes to hell
Christian and non Christian alike.
In scripture the english word "HELL" simply means to cover as in the word HELmet
(HEAD COVER)
Jesus Himself was in HELL for three days
The problem is what you have been told what hell is
there are 4 words in scripture that have been translated Hell(in the king james for reference)
1 Hebrew word =Sheol which simply means grave or a pit
2The greek equivalent is hades
3 tartaros which means abyss which appears only once in scripture
4 gehenna which is a valley on the east side(Ithink) of jerusalem so is an actual place we can visit today
Gehenna simply means the valley of the son of Hinnom
and in the days of Jesus was the place where they threw their rubbish to be burnt
also unclaimed criminals bodies were throwin to be burnt as a way of disposal
hope this clears up some missunderstandings that most of humanity has on what hell is and is'nt
Like this has got a hope in hell LOLOLO

Well...dont get ahead of yourself. You are saying that under the assumption that a bunch of moderately primitive cultures (compared to todays standards) are correct about the existence of Hell. So before you condemn us to hell with your technical christiany scriptures, reevaluate the mere existence of such an imaginary place.

telling me that everyone goes to hell doesnt disappoint me, but your shotty logic behind it does.

[Ncik666]

yes, they did tell me they feel sorry for me. Once they actually accused me of speaking the words of a demon



how ridiculous is that?

Now at this point I don't blame you for feeling superior, if anyone told me that they thought i was "speaking the words of a demon" I would feel that obviously I have a few more fries in my happymeal (if you get my drift). When you said that it made me think that perhaps these are some of the "hardcore" christians, which if the case is true then you have a hard time ahead of you if you want to keep them as friends.

[Lainey]

Oh my God, I had to respond to this one!!!

You see, that's how I found this forum. My "best" friend told me that sometimes she gets angry at God for not letting her friends into Heaven, like me, my boyfriend, and this guy she liked/likes.

I came here looking for a comeback. I can't remember the results very well, as it was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure that at least one person gave ME heck for being immature enough to want a comeback. (What can I say? I get WORSE as I get older!).

I don't have time to read this thread right now (lunch is over ), but I had to comment/tag it and I'll have to read it later. Looks interesting!

[Lainey]

Okay, now I've read the thread. It does kinda sound like you think you're superior to them. Maybe you're even. As for the one who said you said the words of a demon, that's superstition, immaturity, and fear on their part. If they don't bring it up, why not just leave them alone? No one understands the world enough to be sure about everything.

I mostly don't talk about religion with my friends, unless they want to. Some are agnostics like me, some are fundamentalists. It is difficult when the ones who are fundamentalists want to talk about Creationism or whatever (something I have no patience for), but I try not to bring anything like that up. The one who told me that I was going to Hell, I'm happy to report, has stopped preaching at me altogether. I'm not sure whether she came to her senses, or just realized that I don't buy it. She did tell me that she was intimidated by my boyfriend because she didn't think he believed her. I found that amusing.

If they bring it up, ask them lots of questions. There will be logical inconsistencies that lead to more questions.

[methylatedghosts]

Well...dont get ahead of yourself. You are saying that under the assumption that a bunch of moderately primitive cultures (compared to todays standards) are correct about the existence of Hell. So before you condemn us to hell with your technical christiany scriptures, reevaluate the mere existence of such an imaginary place.

telling me that everyone goes to hell doesnt disappoint me, but your shotty logic behind it does.

What do you mean by those cultures being primitive? What part of it is primitive?

[spiritletter]

I don't think we should condemn atheists. They are valuable critics and point out all the sham and hypocrisy in contemporary Christianity, and their is plenty of it. They are generally good and honest people.

I am not an atheist, but I understand their positions.

Let me suggest -- and this will not doubt create an uproar -- atheists are religious in their own way. They are as adamant about the non existence of God as many believers are about the existence of God. The limitation here is that all the arguments between believers and atheists end up being theological.

For me, my pursuit of spirituality has nothing to do with theology. When I practice my path, my life goes better than when I do not.

[Ncik666]

I don't think we should condemn atheists. They are valuable critics and point out all the sham and hypocrisy in contemporary Christianity, and their is plenty of it. They are generally good and honest people.

I am not an atheist, but I understand their positions.

Let me suggest -- and this will not doubt create an uproar -- atheists are religious in their own way. They are as adamant about the non existence of God as many believers are about the existence of God. The limitation here is that all the arguments between believers and atheists end up being theological.

For me, my pursuit of spirituality has nothing to do with theology. When I practice my path, my life goes better than when I do not.

We may not all be "religious" but the ones that feel strong enough about this that they end up on forums and such tend to have "religious zeal" but what almost everyone who does have this will say is that Atheism is not based on faith. Which as far as can be told so far is true. Most base there atheism on observable evidence and lack thereofe from religion. It takes a certain amount of confidence in your standpoint to keep up with it which is often interpreted to be faith, but its not.

[The Humanist Manifesto]

I don't think we should condemn atheists. They are valuable critics and point out all the sham and hypocrisy in contemporary Christianity, and their is plenty of it. They are generally good and honest people.

I am not an atheist, but I understand their positions.

Let me suggest -- and this will not doubt create an uproar -- atheists are religious in their own way. They are as adamant about the non existence of God as many believers are about the existence of God. The limitation here is that all the arguments between believers and atheists end up being theological.

For me, my pursuit of spirituality has nothing to do with theology. When I practice my path, my life goes better than when I do not.

well put. christians the theological part of the arguments because there are so many shields and clauses in the bible that protect them for ever having to question there God. they are kind of in there own little bubble. i normally dont care about people being in there own little bubbles except for there are so many people in that bubble that it is negatively affecting the progression of humans. i am a humanist above all...and think we are to the point that we dont need any mystical Gods to worship, we can figure things out on our own.