"Take my word for it, or his, or this book"

[Zzyzx]

Most of us probably know better than to believe everything said or written. If someone tells us they can fly by flapping their arms, our response is likely disbelief and a request that they ‘show me’. If they refuse to demonstrate or fail in flapping, we regard their claim as false. Agreed?

If a person claims to have come back to life after being dead for days none of us are likely to believe the claim unless it could be verified. Right?

If someone writes that fifty years ago a long-dead person came back to life and flew away into the sky, what would be your / our likely reaction? Would we be convinced if they say ‘many saw him’?

What would it take to convince us that the tale was true?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #526]

So there we have it, you claim that the ONLY way to "hear from God" is audibly hearing a voice from the spirit world.

This, the shaded and bold text, verbatim, is your opinion, not mine.

That is my understanding of your point, if I am wrong simply clarify.

Don't play on the other word meaning with the word 'heard,' take it as audible hearing from the Lord God.

My question for you is the following: is the ONLY way to "hear from God" audibly hearing a voice from the spirit world or physically meeting God incarnate?

Jesus used the mind of a fourteen-year-old boy in this regard, as He used a physical vessel in His incarnation. Jesus is not yet visible to all, and no one has yet seen Him.

[JehovahsWitness]

Or is this another of you opinion statements ?

Ours is a true-to-life encounter with the Lord Jesus.

Why did you make this statement, are you suggesting (not a verbatim quote my understanding of what you are suggesting) that because you claim to have met Jesus in the flesh your quotations are therefore authoratiative and settle the matter?

"Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me" - JESUS CHRIST

The Son is long gone; how can you hear the Son of God today if not from the Lord Jesus, who is beside us all the time?

We have the words of the Son of God recorded in scripture by those that testified and heard Him audibly. Those words are authoritative. Theirs was a true to life encounter with the Lord Jesus.

[JehovahsWitness]

Why did he keep quoting the scripture of his day.

See my answer above.

.. Jesus quoted the scripture of the day because he viewed them as authoritative since he indicated they (scripture) contained the express words of the Father communicated through his Prophets. This is not my opinion, as he specifically said "have you not read...?" indicating that his audience could read truths on matters of faith such as that God created man and female and that one should worship only YHWH....(see Matthew 19)

He also directed people to scripture because he knew that every person seeking God would not have a personal paranormal experience or hear God audibly speak to them from the spirit world and they would need to READ about God's actions and requirements to learn to please Him.

This is not my opinion the above is based on the verifiable testimony of those that heard his audible voice.

[JehovahsWitness]

Do we have to audibly hear a voice from the spirit realm to hear from God?

It's God's discretion, not mine.

So you do not have the authority to say that we those that have not heard an audible paranormal voice from the spirit realm have not heard from God in another way? That would be God's discretion not for you to say one way or the other ? Correct?

I (and I daresay many other Christians that have not had a supernatural experience (meaning heard a paranormal voice from beyond) have heard from the Lord.. I can testify that it is possible to "hear" God other means ; so stop putting God in a box (see below)


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THE HAND OF GOD WAS UPON ME

COMMUNICATION is the process of sending and receiving information, ideas, thoughts, and emotions to establish mutual understanding. There are those that claim only (hearing) audible voices from the spirit realm can be considered communication with God. Interestingly the human brain processes information receieved audibly or through ones eyes (reading) in the same way once the words are understood there is effectivly little difference. By far the vast majority of men and women for whom God expressed his approval did not hear his voice or receive a visit from the spirit realm. Let us look at some examples...

NEHEMIAH played a vital role in the development of God's purpose. However we have no reports of him having a supernatural experience or communicating with an angel or hearing voices from the spirit realm. He had no angelic visitation, saw no "cool writing in the sky" and nobody claiming to be God incarnate visited him. How then, did Nehemiah know what God wanted of him? Nehemiah prayerfully considered scripture (Nehemiah 1:8–9), listened to reliable reports and was sensitive to God directing him by means of his holy spirit (read Nehemiah 2:8)

EZRA was a Priest that lead the people in worship when they returned to Jerusalem after their exile in Babylon. He used a similar expression to Nehemiah that "... the hand of the Lord my God was upon me..." (Ezra 7:28) This implies divine guidance and support. How did he know specifically what was needed? Ezra was a skilled copyist and student of revealed prophecy in scripture. He knew how to read and apply to his current situation, what God had previously revealed through his Prophets.

"The spirit of Jehovah (YHWH) spoke through me; His word was on my tongue" - KING DAVID (2 Samuel 23:2)

Interestingly there is no specific mention that David heard an audible voice, no mention of visions or of supernatural paranormal dictating of text. How then was David able to speak God's words (they were on his tongue)? He explains himself by means of God's spirit. So my means of God's spirit David could utter divine revelation in his musical compositions.

In view of the above, what can we know about how God communicates and whether one can "hear" from God (as in "know and understand" what he wants us to know and understand) ?




JW


RELATED POSTS

Is a paranormal encounter (audible voice from the spirit world) the ONLY way to hear from Jesus?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 9#p1187319

Is a paranormal encounter (audible voice from the spirit world) the ONLY way God communicates with humans ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 3#p1189663

[JehovahsWitness]

The Lord quoted scriptures so that the people could see them (scriptures they trusted in their lives) as testimonies to Him alone ....

• If the Lord wanted people to see them as testimonies he must have believed them to be TRUTHFUL testimonies correct? If they were TRUTHFUL and accurate testimonies, that means although they were thousands of years old and the writers were long dead the truths therein we still valid and accurate. Correct?

• Further if the Lord used scripture to help people to see (understand) something , even though he was standing right there in front of them and could have said "forget the scriptures, just come through me), his position was that certain understanding was enabled through reading scripture (not a verbatim of what you just said but my summary of understanding of what you have just written) is that understanding correct or not?

Since the authors were long gone, they would not be able to tell us today the truth and the lies in the alleged copies of copies of what they wrote about the Lord Jesus.

Firstly, if there were lies in the copies of scripture Jesus would not have quoted from them. His using the Hebrew BIBLE was a de facto validation of their content. They were not alleged copies the WERE copies. Proven and validated not only by the copiest of his day but by the Lord himself who verbatim stated that they could READ was God had SAID therein.

Further it is IRRELEVANT that the writers are not alive today to validate their content. Their writings existed in Jesus day, THOUSANDS of years after their death but Jesus still expected people to learn (understand) things from what they wrote. Authors do not have to live forever for their words to be truthful, they quoted God (whose voices they heard audibly from the spirit realm) is God dead? If not his words (as recorded verbatim in the bible) are still "alive" too. (Hebrews 12:4)

If your attitude of leaning on the scriptures had not locked you to the bible alone, you would have been absolutely freed from the Bible a long time ago. But as it goes, you're still stuck on the Bible to date.

I quote from the bible for the same reasons Jesus did. He evidently was not "freed from the bible" because he referenced and quoted from practically every book in the Hebrew bible. Was he still stuck on the bible ? What would you have told him when he quoted Moses and Prophets, to free himself from scripture (the Hebrew bible)?


I understand your message (from, what in my opinion is, a DEMON spirit masquerading as Christ) is to reject the bible. But Jesus did quite the opposite by quoting EXTENSIVELY (dozens of times) from the Hebrew bible, not as mere "testimony of God's existence"" but to settle and support many questions about faith and salvation.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #441]

What we do have in the scriptures is the 12 having authority over the Church,

Jesus alone is the sole authority in His church, and everybody is on par with each other as brethren to one another.

Thus saith the Lord:

'And remember, in My church, no one will stand to explain the holy scriptures or lead people as they explain, and they will stand as pastors, because in My church, I am the only Pastor who stands before you. Remember, when two or three discuss Me without any argument, I am in their midst.'

What is the Green? Are you using a quotation to add weight to your point? To support what you are saying? To prove that what you said is true and accurate? Why did you not simply say "Look to the Lord he is near us all" and leave it at that... are you of the position that quoting what "the Lord saith" is like refering to God's word and that we can believe what the Lord said in the quotation to be TRUE.

I ask because you seem to feel if you quote what the Lord said it is not sign of idolatry and slavery to the quoted source but if someone quoted what the Lord saith to MOSES its slavery and idolatry from which it would be necessary to break free.

Is it not double standard to encourage people to break free from the written words of God as witnessed by Moses, the Prophets and the Apostles that witnessed Jesus (the bible canon) ...., while you continue to point people to the written words of what God said as witnessed by you and your family [/i][/color]