Did he or didn't he?

[Athetotheist]

And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her.
(1 Samuel 28:6-7)

So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord
(1Chronicles 10:13-14)

How exactly are these to be reconciled?

[RBD]

[Replying to RBD in post #150]

Post 143 still stands tall, in that 'on the day' refers to the Exodus timeline. And during the Exodus timeline, they burnt them some offerings -- which conflicts with Jer. 7:22....

Your tradition of including time outside of Egypt as time exiting Egypt, does not change the LORD's time when He brought them out of Egypt.

If nothing new, debate over. Thanks.

[RBD]

Taking the gospels' words literally, which you say is necessary to prove literal contradiction, Mary Magdalene did not find the tomb open and then withhold that information from the other women as they all wondered together who would open the tomb for them.

If nothing new to this debate either, then this debate also over. You can go back and read up on it again if you want.

[RBD]

Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth?"
(Jeremiah 23:24)

"The eyes of the Lord are in every place."
(Proverbs 15:3)

"And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and, if not, I will know."
(Genesis 18:20-21)

Taking the words of Jeremiah and Proverbs literally, Yahweh fills heaven and earth and sees all. Taking the words of Genesis literally, he had to come down to earth in order to see what was going on in Sodom.

Didn't have to. He chose to in bodily form of a man, as well as offer mercy to any that departed from the evil places. Whether they will altogether remain in the city or not. Only Lot, his wife, and daughters left, but only by the compelling hand of the angel.

And He also went to promise a son to Abraham and Sarah, as well as test Abraham too in the process... A multi tasking trip.

"For he knoweth the secrets of the heart." 
(Psalm 44:21)

"Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men."
(Acts 1:24)

"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul."
(Deuteronomy 13:1-3)

Taking the words of the Psalms and Acts literally, Yahweh knows what is in everyone's heart. Taking the words of Deuteronomy literally, he has to test people to find out what's in their hearts.

Doesn't have to, but chooses to test us to justify or condemn ourselves.

1 Peter{1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Rev{20:12}
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.



God sees all things of the heart and body, but only judges by the works, that all men can see and justify or condemn for themselves. A just and merciful judge, who already knows the guilty and the innocent, allows all people to justify or condemn themselves by our own works.

If God judges and executes by the heart alone, then there would be no room for mercy, nor any one on earth after first lusting. God is divinely perfect in heaven, and utterly practical on earth.

No Scripture says God does not see all things, but only shows that God judges by works, and not by thoughts alone.

[POI]

[Replying to RBD in post #161]

The debate was over at post 143. In the Bible, the Exodus means "a mass departure" or "the way out." It refers both to the historic event of the Israelites escaping slavery in Egypt and to the second book of the Old Testament, which tells the story of their journey. According to the Bible, all of the wandering occurred outside of Egypt. Well, they burnt them some offerings while, outside of Egypt, which makes Jer. 7:22 false.

[Athetotheist]

Taking the gospels' words literally, which you say is necessary to prove literal contradiction, Mary Magdalene did not find the tomb open and then withhold that information from the other women as they all wondered together who would open the tomb for them.

If nothing new to this debate either, then this debate also over. You can go back and read up on it again if you want.

The new part is the precedent you set:

In keeping with the record, He did not command burnt offerings when bringing them out of Egypt.

In keeping with the record, Mary Magdalene did not withhold any information from the other women.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to RBD in post #163]

"And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and, if not, I will know."
(Genesis 18:20-21)

Didn't have to. He chose to in bodily form of a man

"In keeping with the record", as you would say, he chooses to go down at that time in order to know after that time. So the Bible's literal words tell that he does not fill heaven and earth and that his eyes are not in every place, contradicting Jeremiah and Proverbs.


The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul."
(Deuteronomy 13:1-3)

Doesn't have to, but chooses to test us to justify or condemn ourselves.

Again, in keeping with the record, he tests people to find out if they love him. So the Bible's literal words tell us that he is not omniscient and does not know the hearts of all men, contradicting Psalms and Acts.


You're the one who standardized....

Taking god's words literally, which is necessary to prove literal contradiction

....and now that they've done exactly that, you're not just trying to move the goalposts----you're trying to take them out entirely. To put it another way, you're making up stuff which isn't in the literal record to keep from admitting that your "literal words" argument against contradiction has fallen apart. All the sermonizing on what "all men can see and justify or condemn for themselves" is a smoke screen to obscure the fact that the literal words of these passages conflict with each other. The very fact that you have to go to such lengths to patch up the holes demonstrates that.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to RBD in post #160]

Taking the Bible's words literally, Saul did not make his sons pass through the fire or pollute himself with idols.

Right. And Saul didn't literally kill the innocent priests, when he had his wicked servant do the killing.

Since Saul didn't make his sons pass through the fire or pollute himself with idols, Ezekiel 20:31 doesn't apply to him.

In any case, According to the LORD's law, if you violate it in any point, you are violating all. Not keeping all His commandments, is not keeping any.

For that to be the case, any violation of any part of the law would have to be punishable by death.

[RBD]

[Replying to RBD in post #163]

"And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and, if not, I will know."
(Genesis 18:20-21)

Didn't have to. He chose to in bodily form of a man

"In keeping with the record", as you would say, he chooses to go down at that time in order to know after that time.

The only thing He didn't know as a man with angels observing on earth, was who would or would not come out of the city before destruction.

Also, what Abraham would do, knowing the Lord's intent of judgement:

Gen 18:25
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul."
(Deuteronomy 13:1-3)

Doesn't have to, but chooses to test us to justify or condemn ourselves.

Again, in keeping with the record, he tests people to find out if they love him. So the Bible's literal words tell us that he is not omniscient and does not know the hearts of all men, contradicting Psalms and Acts.

He also knows the hearts of men and women can change by testing of life. The Lord waits to judge the works of this life, and not the heart of alone.

Taking god's words literally, which is necessary to prove literal contradiction

....and now that they've done exactly that, you're not just trying to move the goalposts----you're trying to take them out entirely.

I acknowledge that i didn't consider superficial people, who only play word gotcha games, without including the purpose and teaching.

Such as,

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,

1Jo 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

So we see literally how God loves the world, but commands His children not to love the world. The correction teaching of context is that God loves the world, but not the evil works of the world, and commands His people to love the people without doing their evil.

Luke 10
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

All the sermonizing on what "all men can see and justify or condemn for themselves"

And so, you acknowledge the words in context of teaching exposes just another gotcha moment.

[RBD]

In any case, According to the LORD's law, if you violate it in any point, you are violating all. Not keeping all His commandments, is not keeping any.

For that to be the case, any violation of any part of the law would have to be punishable by death.

Of course. Since the death penalty is for any violation of law. Death is still death no matter for our many violations.

And it continues to be spiritually so:

Gen 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.


Every soul that is sinning against God, is dead to God, and He does not hear their prayers, but only the righteous keeping His commandments blameless:

Jhn 9:31
Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to RBD in post #168]

The only thing He didn't know as a man with angels observing on earth, was who would or would not come out of the city before destruction.

Here you acknowledge that he doesn't know every heart. If he did, he would know who would or would not come out of the city before he came down to earth.


Again, in keeping with the record, he tests people to find out if they love him. So the Bible's literal words tell us that he is not omniscient and does not know the hearts of all men, contradicting Psalms and Acts.

He also knows the hearts of men and women can change by testing of life. The Lord waits to judge the works of this life, and not the heart of alone.

He isn't testing them to "change" them. He's commanding them not to do a specific thing [follow after other gods] and warning them that he himself will present enticements to follow other gods as a test so that he himself will gain knowledge of the state of their devotion. We know that's what the text is saying because those are its literal words.

Again, you're just doing a 180 and abandoning the literal words of the record when they don't support your argument.

Taking god's words literally, which is necessary to prove literal contradiction

....and now that they've done exactly that, you're not just trying to move the goalposts----you're trying to take them out entirely.

I acknowledge that i didn't consider superficial people, who only play word gotcha games, without including the purpose and teaching.

I'm playing the "game" by the rule you established, so don't blame me for scoring points.

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,

1Jo 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

So we see literally how God loves the world, but commands His children not to love the world. The correction teaching of context is that God loves the world, but not the evil works of the world, and commands His people to love the people without doing their evil.

Luke 10
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

You're good at tossing in passages from hither and yon, but when they're relevant at all it just serves to illustrate the conflicts between texts.


All the sermonizing on what "all men can see and justify or condemn for themselves"

And so, you acknowledge the words in context of teaching exposes just another gotcha moment.

And so, you have to quote only the first part of that sentence to obscure the point I was making.

All the sermonizing on what "all men can see and justify or condemn for themselves" is a smoke screen to obscure the fact that the literal words of these passages conflict with each other.