"Take my word for it, or his, or this book"

[Zzyzx]

Most of us probably know better than to believe everything said or written. If someone tells us they can fly by flapping their arms, our response is likely disbelief and a request that they ‘show me’. If they refuse to demonstrate or fail in flapping, we regard their claim as false. Agreed?

If a person claims to have come back to life after being dead for days none of us are likely to believe the claim unless it could be verified. Right?

If someone writes that fifty years ago a long-dead person came back to life and flew away into the sky, what would be your / our likely reaction? Would we be convinced if they say ‘many saw him’?

What would it take to convince us that the tale was true?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to OneJack in post #362]

What is this, a double talk? You have just said, 'God does dwell within the person speaking though - that person is His Son, His Chosen One (Messiah - Chosen One of JAH),' yet now you're saying the Father is indeed in him and he is in the Father?' How can the Father today be in the 'still small voice' within you when the Son of God is long gone, and his role is done with, too?

Because the Son of God is NOT long gone. The Son of God is the Messiah (the Chosen One of JAH), the Christ (the Anointed One.) He is alive. He is the One speaking in Revelation to John (even identifies Himself AS the Son of God.)

He is the Holy One of God. God - the Father - is the MOST Holy One.

Just as the Temple had both a Most Holy Place (to represent God - the Father - the Most Holy One), the Temple also had a Holy Place (to represent the Holy One - Christ Jaheshua). No one could enter into the Most Holy without first passing through the Holy Place - just as no one comes to the Father except through the Son.

But we've been through this in numerous posts. Not sure there is much else to say on the matter, OneJack.


Peace again.

[OneJack]

[Replying to William in post #369]

If demonic deception is so pervasive and powerful that it can simulate God, Jesus, near-death experiences, biblical visions, prophetic utterances, and even the apparent resurrection appearances - then the Bible itself becomes unreliable.

Even if we delete the 'If' clause above, the bible is unreliable, indeed, since it contains many contradictions and errors. Also, the bible is not the Lord God, who is the only one reliable at all times.

How does anyone know that the authors weren't deceived?

Anyone may know if the authors of the bible are deceived or not through the Lord Jesus Christ alone, whom one can come to and call on for the truth in this issue, no more, no less.

How does anyone know that the "God" who spoke to them wasn't a demon impersonating divinity?

Anyone to whom God speaks may ask the Lord God for clarification and confirmation that He is the only true God, not a demon impersonation divinity. No other means is/are an option/s in this regard.

[OneJack]

Peace to you,

[Replying to OneJack in post #362]

What is this, a double talk? You have just said, 'God does dwell within the person speaking though - that person is His Son, His Chosen One (Messiah - Chosen One of JAH),' yet now you're saying the Father is indeed in him and he is in the Father?' How can the Father today be in the 'still small voice' within you when the Son of God is long gone, and his role is done with, too?

Because the Son of God is NOT long gone. The Son of God is the Messiah (the Chosen One of JAH), the Christ (the Anointed One.) He is alive. He is the One speaking in Revelation to John (even identifies Himself AS the Son of God.)

He is the Holy One of God. God - the Father - is the MOST Holy One.

Just as the Temple had both a Most Holy Place (to represent God - the Father - the Most Holy One), the Temple also had a Holy Place (to represent the Holy One - Christ Jaheshua). No one could enter into the Most Holy without first passing through the Holy Place - just as no one comes to the Father except through the Son.

But we've been through this in numerous posts. Not sure there is much else to say on the matter, OneJack.


Peace again.

You evaded the double-talk issue, and until now, you can't share with us the exact utterance, verbatim, of the 'still small voice' within you regarding who and what he is; you are the only one reciting more litanies in the bible in his favor.

[OneJack]

... The Lord reminded His listeners of the words that God had spoken and were written in the scriptures.

Are you here stating that it is TRUE that the "the words that God had spoken' ... were written in the scriptures"?

The words that God had spoken in the context of the biblical passages you take into consideration, which the Lord Jesus reminded his audience of.

[OneJack]

The Lord taught us to ask the one who claims he is Jesus or the Almighty God if He is

What good would asking that be ?

You can't cross the bridge until you get there, can you? You don't even know where the bridge is, do you?

If it were the Devil, would he not lie since (according to the verbatim words of Jesus when he was in the Flesh) the devil " is a liar"?

You're uncertain here because you're not privy to both entities, God and that of Satan, are you?

In short if someone were to ask the Devil "are you really Jesus ?" or "Are you really the Lord God who created the heavens and earth, and all things." OBVIOUSLY the Devil will say "I am" because the Devil is a LIAR

This would only be true if you were the Devil. Your ill experience with the spiritual quest for God drags you into your own world of falsehood.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to OneJack in post #362]

What is this, a double talk? You have just said, 'God does dwell within the person speaking though - that person is His Son, His Chosen One (Messiah - Chosen One of JAH),' yet now you're saying the Father is indeed in him and he is in the Father?' How can the Father today be in the 'still small voice' within you when the Son of God is long gone, and his role is done with, too?

Because the Son of God is NOT long gone. The Son of God is the Messiah (the Chosen One of JAH), the Christ (the Anointed One.) He is alive. He is the One speaking in Revelation to John (even identifies Himself AS the Son of God.)

He is the Holy One of God. God - the Father - is the MOST Holy One.

Just as the Temple had both a Most Holy Place (to represent God - the Father - the Most Holy One), the Temple also had a Holy Place (to represent the Holy One - Christ Jaheshua). No one could enter into the Most Holy without first passing through the Holy Place - just as no one comes to the Father except through the Son.

But we've been through this in numerous posts. Not sure there is much else to say on the matter, OneJack.


Peace again.

You evaded the double-talk issue,

What double-talk, Onejack? There was no 'double-talk' to evade.

and until now, you can't share with us the exact utterance, verbatim, of the 'still small voice' within you regarding who and what he is; you are the only one reciting more litanies in the bible in his favor.

Not everything is a verbatim speech like what you post, OneJack.

He speaks in words. He speaks in visions (I have never had a vision that I am aware of). He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.

viewtopic.php?p=738377#p738377


You post 'verbatim' things and still you think (in error) that the Son of God is dead. You are also not posting anything you heard/received in the spirit. You are posting things that another person (a 14 year old boy) spoke out loud.

I don't know what else to tell you that hasn't already been said.

[OneJack]

Not everything is a verbatim speech like what you post, OneJack.

He speaks in words.

Fine. What exactly did he utter to you, in words, who and what he is, as far as you could remember?

He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me.

How???

He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice.

How did he do it? Could you give us the details?

[William]

[Replying to tam in post #370]

Do you think that anyone who doesn't hear an actual voice in their mind which identifies itself as Christ, and experiencing The Christ in the way you claim to, are not true followers of Christ?

I don't really make that call, William.

Who makes that call then tammy? Is it the voice in you mind that you call Christ, who would "make that call"?

I was taught to test the message.

Is it the voice in you mind that you call Christ, which taught you that? What - exactly - did it teach you about that?

I might put my Lord's words and commands up so that the other person could test what they believe or do against Him and His word.

What do you mean by that? What do you you think "Christ and his word" actually mean?

Why might you do that? Is it if YOU think the message tested is NOT from Christ. Or, is it if you are told by the voice in your mind that you call Christ that the message tested is NOT from him?

The rest is not up to me.

So, that testing part is up to you, but not "the rest"...what do you mean by "the rest"?

When you say to another "this is not the Christ I hear" when they witness their own way of communing with The Christ Voice, are you saying that they are somehow wrong and deceived or are you saying something else?

Do you have an example?

Are you asking because you have never said such a thing to anyone? If so, then how can you say that you have ever used these supposed message tests and thus how can you know if such tests actually work?

[William]

[Replying to OneJack in post #372]

Your original statement was "The Lord taught us to ask the one who claims he is Jesus or the Almighty God if He is"

JW responded to this by saying "What good would asking that be ? If it were the Devil, would he not lie since (according to the verbatim words of Jesus when he was in the Flesh) the devil " is a liar"? In short if someone were to ask the Devil "are you really Jesus ?" or "Are you really the Lord God who created the heavens and earth, and all things." OBVIOUSLY the Devil will say "I am" because the Devil is a LIAR"

I pointed out "If demonic deception is so pervasive and powerful that it can simulate God, Jesus, near-death experiences, biblical visions, prophetic utterances, and even the apparent resurrection appearances - then the Bible itself becomes unreliable."

You respond to that with "Even if we delete the 'If' clause above, the bible is unreliable, indeed, since it contains many contradictions and errors. Also, the bible is not the Lord God, who is the only one reliable at all times."

My response to that is to ask you if you believe demonic deception is so pervasive and powerful that it can simulate God, Jesus, near-death experiences, biblical visions, prophetic utterances, and even the apparent resurrection appearances - then the Bible itself becomes unreliable.?

Or were you meaning something else? For example by deleting the "if" in my statement, one also would have to delete the "then" - which would read "demonic deception is so pervasive and powerful that it can simulate God, Jesus, near-death experiences, biblical visions, prophetic utterances, and even the apparent resurrection appearances"

My question to you at this point has to do with your original statement which JW responded to.

You wrote: " Lord taught us to ask the one who claims he is Jesus or the Almighty God if He is" Who is this "the one" you are referring to and how do you know that his answer would be true or false?

For example, there are any number of folk - both incarcerated in institutions and roaming free in society, who claim such things. How would you be able to tell which is "the one" and that he is being true or false about the claim being made?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #370]

Do you think that anyone who doesn't hear an actual voice in their mind which identifies itself as Christ, and experiencing The Christ in the way you claim to, are not true followers of Christ?

I don't really make that call, William.

Who makes that call then tammy? Is it the voice in you mind that you call Christ, who would "make that call"?

Christ makes the call as to who are His true followers. He knows His sheep. He knows who belongs to Him.

I was taught to test the message.

Is it the voice in you mind that you call Christ, which taught you that? What - exactly - did it teach you about that?

Christ taught me this. A person - not an 'it'. How can you ask me what He taught me - when you have been on the thread where I share what He taught me?

I might put my Lord's words and commands up so that the other person could test what they believe or do against Him and His word.

What do you mean by that? What do you you think "Christ and his word" actually mean?

Christ - the person, the Son of God. His word - His written and/or spoken words.

Why might you do that? Is it if YOU think the message tested is NOT from Christ. Or, is it if you are told by the voice in your mind that you call Christ that the message tested is NOT from him?

I test the message because my Lord taught me to do so.
If I am discussing with someone, I would put up His words so that they/we can compare the message/belief to Him, to His words.

The rest is not up to me.

So, that testing part is up to you, but not "the rest"...what do you mean by "the rest"?

By 'the rest' I mean what the other person does with the information.

[/quote]

When you say to another "this is not the Christ I hear" when they witness their own way of communing with The Christ Voice, are you saying that they are somehow wrong and deceived or are you saying something else?

Do you have an example?

Are you asking because you have never said such a thing to anyone? If so, then how can you say that you have ever used these supposed message tests and thus how can you know if such tests actually work?

Again, do you have an example?

Peace again.