Original Sin

[Zzyzx]

Is the Adam and Eve story true? Unless the story is true, the concept of ‘original sin’ has no meaning, and there was no need for Jesus to 'save' humanity from 'original sin'.

From: Ebsco (dot) com
“Original sin is a Christian doctrine that teaches all humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam and Eve due to their disobedience to God in the Garden of Eden. This condition affects every person, making them morally and spiritually flawed from birth, and is often seen as a barrier to a relationship with God.”

From: U.S. Catholic (dot) org
"According to Christian belief, Jesus' sacrifice is seen as a means to save humanity from original sin, which is the state of sin inherited from Adam and Eve. This salvation is believed to be available to all who have faith in Him."

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #50]

It all started here when the angels brought to our nephew this good tidings from heaven, as follows:

March 26, 1987, a baby was born and named Marco or Makie. From childhood, Makie's eyes were open to spirits like angels and demons. As he grew up, he didn't tell anyone what he saw. Many times a day, he saw spirits. Sometimes they were with him while walking, sometimes while eating, but the light spirits of the angels didn't speak. The spirits with ugly appearances, however, said and ordered him to do things. As time passed, the number of spirits he saw increased. This went on and on, and the number kept growing. He was 7 years old when this mysterious event happened. Here's his account:

11:30 PM, I woke up feeling strange, accompanied by a cold wind that seemed to be circulating around me. Soon, I heard a loud thud, and a fire came out from the ceiling of our house and suddenly disappeared. Exactly 12:00 AM, a cold smoke entered the house with seven lights, but I didn't know they were angels. Suddenly, they spoke for the first time, saying,

"Peace, don't be afraid or troubled, for we are angels sent from heaven to reveal God's blessing to you. The next coming of the Lord God Almighty is near, and you will prepare His way in the world. Listen, you, your uncle Rosento's (Onejack) family, a woman named Marita, and your cousin Rebida's family will be revealed by God on the appointed day. Listen carefully, at first, Rebida and her family will be with you in the ministry God will establish, but because of her trust in a person, they will be removed from that ministry. However, a worker of your uncle and his family will replace Rebida's family, but not all members of the family of your uncle's worker will be part of the church you will establish, because some of them still have doubts. A man will also be with you because he will work with Marianie's nephew, Rosento's wife's relative. Before all this happens, you will have an unusual illness because that illness will come from demons. You won't be able to study for a year because of your illness. You will be taken to different hospitals, but none of the doctors who examine you will be able to explain your illness and will say you're going crazy. Even albularios (spiritual healers) won't be able to explain your illness and will say you're bewitched. You and the albulario will be played by demons, and one person will be ruined. Many will stay away from you because they think you're crazy. The demons will do many things to destroy you completely. Before we leave, there's only one question you need to answer: Do you agree to these things happening or not?"

I answered and said I agreed to that agreement. After my answer, the angels said goodbye, but before they left, they introduced themselves and said their names - Michael, Daniel, Samuel, Raniel, Ezekiel, Gristel, and Josakiel. And the angels left.

Do you have anything which corroborates all of this?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #50]

It all started here when the angels brought to our nephew this good tidings from heaven, as follows:

March 26, 1987, a baby was born and named Marco or Makie. From childhood, Makie's eyes were open to spirits like angels and demons. As he grew up, he didn't tell anyone what he saw. Many times a day, he saw spirits. Sometimes they were with him while walking, sometimes while eating, but the light spirits of the angels didn't speak. The spirits with ugly appearances, however, said and ordered him to do things. As time passed, the number of spirits he saw increased. This went on and on, and the number kept growing. He was 7 years old when this mysterious event happened. Here's his account:

11:30 PM, I woke up feeling strange, accompanied by a cold wind that seemed to be circulating around me. Soon, I heard a loud thud, and a fire came out from the ceiling of our house and suddenly disappeared. Exactly 12:00 AM, a cold smoke entered the house with seven lights, but I didn't know they were angels. Suddenly, they spoke for the first time, saying,

"Peace, don't be afraid or troubled, for we are angels sent from heaven to reveal God's blessing to you. The next coming of the Lord God Almighty is near, and you will prepare His way in the world. Listen, you, your uncle Rosento's (Onejack) family, a woman named Marita, and your cousin Rebida's family will be revealed by God on the appointed day. Listen carefully, at first, Rebida and her family will be with you in the ministry God will establish, but because of her trust in a person, they will be removed from that ministry. However, a worker of your uncle and his family will replace Rebida's family, but not all members of the family of your uncle's worker will be part of the church you will establish, because some of them still have doubts. A man will also be with you because he will work with Marianie's nephew, Rosento's wife's relative. Before all this happens, you will have an unusual illness because that illness will come from demons. You won't be able to study for a year because of your illness. You will be taken to different hospitals, but none of the doctors who examine you will be able to explain your illness and will say you're going crazy. Even albularios (spiritual healers) won't be able to explain your illness and will say you're bewitched. You and the albulario will be played by demons, and one person will be ruined. Many will stay away from you because they think you're crazy. The demons will do many things to destroy you completely. Before we leave, there's only one question you need to answer: Do you agree to these things happening or not?"

I answered and said I agreed to that agreement. After my answer, the angels said goodbye, but before they left, they introduced themselves and said their names - Michael, Daniel, Samuel, Raniel, Ezekiel, Gristel, and Josakiel. And the angels left.

Do you have anything which corroborates all of this?

The medical records of the child’s successive hospitalizations corroborate the event mentioned in the good tidings brought by the angels to him.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #52]

The medical records of the child’s successive hospitalizations corroborate the event mentioned in the good tidings brought by the angels to him.

Records of repeated hospitalizations don't corroborate stories of encounters with angels.

To be fair, however, I'm not dismissing your story out-of-hand. When one of my cousins was young he was diagnosed with a serious blood disorder. One of my uncles, who was known to practice unconventional healing, went off into seclusion and did something and a short time later my cousin's illness was gone. The medical records showed it. Even the doctor was incredulous.

Can I prove that it happened? No. Still, I was told the story by relatives who were directly involved and I have a high degree of confidence in its veracity. It makes me reluctant to pigeonhole the miraculous into a single religious framework.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #52]

The medical records of the child’s successive hospitalizations corroborate the event mentioned in the good tidings brought by the angels to him.

Records of repeated hospitalizations don't corroborate stories of encounters with angels.

To be fair, however, I'm not dismissing your story out-of-hand. When one of my cousins was young he was diagnosed with a serious blood disorder. One of my uncles, who was known to practice unconventional healing, went off into seclusion and did something and a short time later my cousin's illness was gone. The medical records showed it. Even the doctor was incredulous.

Can I prove that it happened? No. Still, I was told the story by relatives who were directly involved and I have a high degree of confidence in its veracity. It makes me reluctant to pigeonhole the miraculous into a single religious framework.

The details and symptoms of his sickness matched exactly the description of the angel before it happened to him. Anyway, whether you believe it or not matters not, but I have done my job as God instructed us to put into practice.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #54]

The details and symptoms of his sickness matched exactly the description of the angel before it happened to him. Anyway, whether you believe it or not matters not, but I have done my job as God instructed us to put into practice.

And whether you believe my story or not matters not.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #54]

The details and symptoms of his sickness matched exactly the description of the angel before it happened to him. Anyway, whether you believe it or not matters not, but I have done my job as God instructed us to put into practice.

And whether you believe my story or not matters not.

The only anchor of your/my salvation is the Lord Jesus Christ. Neither are we/you saved nor unsaved because we/you believe or disbelieve your/our story.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #56]

The only anchor of your/my salvation is the Lord Jesus Christ. Neither are we/you saved nor unsaved because we/you believe or disbelieve your/our story.

The assumption being that your concept of Jesus is the only correct one, regardless of your assertion elsewhere that it doesn't matter if all the Bible authors are wrong.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #56]

The only anchor of your/my salvation is the Lord Jesus Christ. Neither are we/you saved nor unsaved because we/you believe or disbelieve your/our story.

The assumption being that your concept of Jesus is the only correct one, regardless of your assertion elsewhere that it doesn't matter if all the Bible authors are wrong.

I’ve shared and will continue to share with all, be it in a forum like this, social gatherings, class reunions, casual acquaintances, etc., the direct utterances that we heard and learned from the the Lord Jesus if the situation favors it. But I do not vehemently and directly claim our version of Jesus is the only correct one, as you perpetually insist. My closing narrative to all is, ‘If we all want the truth to come to us, let’s all come to and call upon the Lord, listen to Him, and follow Him until the end for our salvation and eternal life with Him in Paradise.’

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Zzyzx in post #1]

That doesn't follow. The story doesn't need to be a historical account for original sin to be true. The story is to show us that the best of us was given one command and failed to keep it, so would we all do the same, so we all are worthy of the human nature that dies. We all need to go through soul building.

It doesn't need to be true that a snake talked, or was cursed to walk, or that they touched a fruit, etc.

[Avoice]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #59]
So you are telling me that if God told you not to eat from a certain tree; if you did you would die- you would eat from it? Really
Youd do the same thing as those two fools
in the garden?