In the spirit world did------?

[placebofactor]

In the spirit world, we're speaking of spiritual creatures like angels, etc. Did any of them ever worship the Father or the Son before or after the incarnation? I will start you off with the following verse to prove me wrong.

Try to be good teachers and stay within the context of these verses. I am quoting from the King James. Use any bible you want, but the rules will apply evenly.

Isaiah 6:1-3, "I (Isaiah) saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple, above it (the throne) stood the seraphims; each one had six wings; and two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he did fly."

Nehemiah 9:6, "Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, and the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee."

Psalms 148:2, "Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts." With verse 5, "Let him praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created."

In Revelation 4:8-11, you can read the verses for yourself and respond.

[OneJack]

Then, who or what do you think it makes Jesus?

Sitter on a throne.

I think God has raised Jesus to the position Jesus has and everything else than God is subjugated under Jesus. Therefore Jesus is the second greatest.

For, "He put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him. When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.
1 Cor. 15:27-28

...
Is he YHWH?

Did he create all things, all other things, or all (other) things, or nothing? Did he just stand by after his Father sent him to create and watch as a good son should?

Bible tells Jesus is the son of God. And things were created through him. The Bible tells also that God is greater than Jesus and there is only one true God.

You're wrong on every point you made.
1. Did the Father raise Jesus or did he send him? Isaiah 9;6, "A son was given." He was a gift. Obviously, some people don't like the gift; they want the one who sent the gift.

You're right, the son (the man who was born of Mary and was called the Son of God, per se) was sent by the Lord (Father), the Almighty God, who came in the flesh - the flesh of that son He sent- hence His name Immanuel, or Mighty God, or Eternal Father, or Jesus was given to that son. The Son of God, per se, was the physical vessel of the Almighty God, whose name is Immanuel, or Jesus, or.... in His incarnation among the apostles and disciples in their time. The Father, whose name is Immanuel, or Jesus, or ...... raised the Son of God when the latter died on the cross. The terms Father, Jesus, Immanuel, Messiah, Lord, Christ, YHWH, Eternal Father, and Mighty God all belong to the Almighty God.

2. Jesus created ALL THINGS! Not somethings, not most things, but "All things, John 1:3, and if you want to tear that verse out of the Bible, then try Colossians 1:16, or Genesis 1:1, or Hebrews 1:8 when the Father calls his beloved Son "God. "He said to him, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever." OH, wait, isn't Jesus the one Isaiah saw sitting on his throne, then called him Jehovah?

Jesus is the name of God; hence, Jesus is the Almighty God who created all things.

3. Please explain what you mean by "through?' Did the Father's words pass through the Son? Did they go around him, over him, or under him? What do you mean by "through him?" Why would the Father send his Son, then let his words pass THROUGH HIM? That's not what messengers do.

In the book of Genesis, the phrase 'all things were created through the Son' is non-existent; hence, the contradiction between the NT and the OT.

4. See, you had to use the words Jesus used while in the form of a servant. You can't resist it, can you? "The Father is greater." What do you think greater means? Bigger, stronger, longer, wider, WHAT? The word 'Greater has nothing to do with the Father or Son's divine natures. It concerns only those who are receiving the message, not the sender or the one who was sent.

The correct format would be, 'the Father is greater than the Son,' not 'the Father is greater than Jesus,' as many erratically claim.

Last word. John 1:10, "He (Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made by him, AND THE WORLD KNEW HIM NOT." Nothing changes, does it?

The Almighty God, whose name is Immanuel, or Jesus, or ... was in the world through the Son of God, per se, to whom He dwelt His fullness during His incarnation,

[1213]

1. Did the Father raise Jesus or did he send him? Isaiah 9;6, "A son was given." He was a gift. Obviously, some people don't like the gift; they want the one who sent the gift.

2. Jesus created ALL THINGS! Not somethings, not most things, but "All things, John 1:3, and if you want to tear that verse out of the Bible, then try Colossians 1:16, or Genesis 1:1, or Hebrews 1:8 when the Father calls his beloved Son "God. "He said to him, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever." OH, wait, isn't Jesus the one Isaiah saw sitting on his throne, then called him Jehovah?

3. Please explain what you mean by "through?' Did the Father's words pass through the Son? Did they go around him, over him, or under him? What do you mean by "through him?" Why would the Father send his Son, then let his words pass THROUGH HIM? That's not what messengers do.

4. See, you had to use the words Jesus used while in the form of a servant. You can't resist it, can you? "The Father is greater." What do you think greater means? Bigger, stronger, longer, wider, WHAT? The word 'Greater has nothing to do with the Father or Son's divine natures. It concerns only those who are receiving the message, not the sender or the one who was sent.

Last word. John 1:10, "He (Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made by him, AND THE WORLD KNEW HIM NOT." Nothing changes, does it?

1. Jesus was send by God. And God raised Jesus to the position Jesus has.

The one receiving you receives Me, and the one receiving Me receives Him who sent Me.
Matt. 10:40
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me. Because of this He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me" to heal the brokenhearted, "to preach remission to captives and new sight to the blind," to send away the ones having been crushed in deliverance,
Luke 4:18
Because of this also God highly exalted Him and gave Him a name above every name,
Phi. 2:9

2. God's throne is forever. Sitting on the throne doesn't make one the God.

3. Bible says "All things have been created through him" Col. 1:14-16. I think it means God used Jesus to do things. And messenger is a person who tells what his sender has told him to say, like Jesus did:

Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me.
John 7:16
For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:49

4. When Jesus says God is greater than him, I think he means, God is superior to him. Jesus tells he can't do anything without the God.

Jesus therefore answered them, "Most assuredly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does like-wise.
John 5:19
I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.
John 5:30

[placebofactor]

1. Did the Father raise Jesus or did he send him? Isaiah 9;6, "A son was given." He was a gift. Obviously, some people don't like the gift; they want the one who sent the gift.

2. Jesus created ALL THINGS! Not somethings, not most things, but "All things, John 1:3, and if you want to tear that verse out of the Bible, then try Colossians 1:16, or Genesis 1:1, or Hebrews 1:8 when the Father calls his beloved Son "God. "He said to him, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever." OH, wait, isn't Jesus the one Isaiah saw sitting on his throne, then called him Jehovah?

3. Please explain what you mean by "through?' Did the Father's words pass through the Son? Did they go around him, over him, or under him? What do you mean by "through him?" Why would the Father send his Son, then let his words pass THROUGH HIM? That's not what messengers do.

4. See, you had to use the words Jesus used while in the form of a servant. You can't resist it, can you? "The Father is greater." What do you think greater means? Bigger, stronger, longer, wider, WHAT? The word 'Greater has nothing to do with the Father or Son's divine natures. It concerns only those who are receiving the message, not the sender or the one who was sent.

Last word. John 1:10, "He (Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made by him, AND THE WORLD KNEW HIM NOT." Nothing changes, does it?

1. Jesus was send by God. And God raised Jesus to the position Jesus has.

The one receiving you receives Me, and the one receiving Me receives Him who sent Me.
Matt. 10:40
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me. Because of this He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me" to heal the brokenhearted, "to preach remission to captives and new sight to the blind," to send away the ones having been crushed in deliverance,
Luke 4:18
Because of this also God highly exalted Him and gave Him a name above every name,
Phi. 2:9

2. God's throne is forever. Sitting on the throne doesn't make one the God.

3. Bible says "All things have been created through him" Col. 1:14-16. I think it means God used Jesus to do things. And messenger is a person who tells what his sender has told him to say, like Jesus did:

Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me.
John 7:16
For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:49

4. When Jesus says God is greater than him, I think he means, God is superior to him. Jesus tells he can't do anything without the God.

Jesus therefore answered them, "Most assuredly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does like-wise.
John 5:19
I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.
John 5:30

My response: Jesus is the Creator, John 1:3, and Colossians 1:16, the "Almighty" of Revelation 1:8, who the Father himself called God, Hebrews 1:8, then he has to be Jehovah of Genesis 1:1. And we know Jehovah in the original language of Hebrew is YHWH, and that "YHWH" is the name that no man knows but Jesus himself, Revelation 19:12.

If Jesus is Creator and Almighty, then yes, He shares the identity of YHWH

John 1:3 – “All things were made by him…”

Colossians 1:16 – “For by him were all things created…”

Hebrews 1:8 – “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever…”

Revelation 1:8 – “I am Alpha and Omega… the Almighty.”

If the Son is the Creator of all things, is called God by the Father,, is alled the Almighty,

then yes—within a biblical, Trinitarian framework—that means He shares the very identity of YHWH, the God of Genesis 1:1. Not a lesser deity, not a created being, but truly God.

So, because my bible tells us that Jesus is YHWH, then the “name above every name” absolutely includes the divine name/identity we call Jehovah/YHWH.

In the light of Philippians 2:9 in that light, “Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow…
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…”

Paul is echoing Isaiah 45:23, where YHWH says:

“Unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.”

Paul takes what YHWH says about Himself and applies it to Jesus. That’s not a small move. That’s a claim of shared divine identity.

So, if Jesus is YHWH, then:

“Lord” (Kyrios) in Philippians 2:11 is not just a polite title—it’s the New Testament way of rendering the divine name.

The “name above every name” is not less than YHWH—it is the full divine status and honor of YHWH now openly attached to the incarnate, crucified, risen Jesus.

3. Revelation 19:12 and the “name that no man knew”
“…and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.” (Revelation 19:12)

You’re connecting that to YHWH as the covenant name of God.

Revelation doesn’t explicitly say that hidden name is YHWH, but it does show:

There is an aspect of Christ’s identity that is known perfectly only to Him.

Even though we know titles like Word of God, King of kings, Lord of lords, there is still a depth to who He is that remains beyond creaturely comprehension.

So every Biblical point f mine lands well:
If YHWH is God’s unique, covenant name, and Jesus alone fully knows and reveals the Father (Matthew 11:27), then it fits that the Son uniquely knows and bears that name in its fullest sense—even beyond what we grasp.

So, because Jesus is the Creator, Almighty, and called God by the Father, then He is truly YHWH.

And that Philippians 2:9–11, read in that light, means the Father has publicly exalted the incarnate Son and openly vested Him with the full honor of the divine name. The understanding that I am drawing from is coherent; yours is from the Watchtower. Jesus doesn’t just get a fancy title, pinned on his chest, He is revealed by his Father as the One who shares the Father's very identity of YHWH.

[OneJack]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #13]

If the Son is the Creator of all things, is called God by the Father,, is alled the Almighty,

Where in the bible can we read that the Son, per se, claims for himself that he is the creator of all things, and that the Father called him God? Or where in the bible did the Lord Jesus Christ, through the Son of God, teach His disciples and apostles that the Son of God, per se [to whom He dwelt His fullness], is the Almighty and Creator of all things?

[1213]

So, because my bible tells us that Jesus is YHWH...

It is sad, if you think so. But, I would like to hear, who in your opinion is the second Lord in this? The first is YHWH.

Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, saying, “What do you think of the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “Of David.” He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, ‘The Lord [=YHWH] said to my Lord [=Adonai], sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet’? “If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?”
Matt. 22:41-45 (Ps. 110:1)

[placebofactor]

So, because my bible tells us that Jesus is YHWH...

It is sad, if you think so. But, I would like to hear, who in your opinion is the second Lord in this? The first is YHWH.

Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, saying, “What do you think of the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “Of David.” He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, ‘The Lord [=YHWH] said to my Lord [=Adonai], sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet’? “If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?”
Matt. 22:41-45 (Ps. 110:1)

Why do you continue to go back to verses that sit within the context of Philippians 2. The Son did not think of himself as a thief when he claimed to be equal with his Father? Read verse 6. From his birth to his resurrection, as a man, HE MADE HIMSELF OF NO REPUTATION. He set aside his glory, AND TOOK UPON HIMSELF THE FORM OF A SERVANT, AND WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN. He set his glory aside; he didn't throw it away or give it away. Jesus sole purpose for being sent was to seek and to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel, that was the Father's message to the Jews, and that was the message Jesus delivered, no more, no less.

David wrote 1000 years before the birth of Jesus Christ, and 300 years before Isaiah 9:6 told the world about a Son being given. The book of Matthew covers a short 33 1/2-year period, from the middle of October 4 B.C. until some 40 days after the Passover on 4/25/31 A.D. It was then He returned to all his glory and sat at the right hand of His Father. He returned to the very place he came from before his birth.

[Capbook]

Let's begin with Isaiah 6:1. Isaiah wrote, "I saw also the Lord (Adonay) sitting upon a throne," In this verse, the watchtower has decided to change (Adonay or Lord) to Jehovah. ...

I can agree that the word is Adonay. And I believe it is possible Jesus sat on the throne. But, is there any good reason to think it makes him the God?

Yes, the best reason that Jesus is God is from the words of the Father Whom said to the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever."

[placebofactor]

So, because my bible tells us that Jesus is YHWH...

It is sad, if you think so. But, I would like to hear, who in your opinion is the second Lord in this? The first is YHWH.

Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, saying, “What do you think of the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “Of David.” He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, ‘The Lord [=YHWH] said to my Lord [=Adonai], sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet’? “If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?”
Matt. 22:41-45 (Ps. 110:1)

1213, why don't you make it easy on yourself? Settle the question once and for all in your own mind. Is Jesus Jehovah (YHWH) of the Old Testament, to the glory of his Father who is also called YHWH). Get yourself a King James, or NIV, anything but a New World Translation. The God of Israel, verse 2 the Jews lean upon the God of Israel; the LORD (Jehovah) of hosts is his name."

Verse 4, "He has declared the former things from the beginning. He did them suddenly and they came to pass.

Verse 5, from the beginning, he declared it to the Jews; before these things came to pass, he showed it to them.

verse 9. For his name's sake he deferred his anger, and for him, and refrained from cutting the Jews off.

Verse 11. For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it; for how should MY name be polluted? And I will not give my glory unto another.

Verse 12. Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my cooed; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Verse 13. My right hand has spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Verse 15. I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

Read the following carefully. Jehovah is speaking and said,
Verse 16. "Come you (his people) near unto me, hear you this; I (Jehovah) have not spoken in secret from the beginning; for the time that it was there am I: and now the Lord God, (his Father) and his Spirit hath sent me. Verse 17. Thus, saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God, (YHWH) which teacheth thee to profit.

[1213]

1213, why don't you make it easy on yourself? Settle the question once and for all in your own mind. Is Jesus Jehovah (YHWH) ....

I think the Bible shows clearly Jesus is not YHWH. For example here:

Jesus responded, as he taught in the temple, "How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? For David himself said in the Holy Spirit, 'The Lord [=YHWH] said to my Lord [=Adonai, Jesus], Sit at my right hand, Until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet.' Therefore David himself calls him Lord, so how can he be his son?" The common people heard him gladly.
Mark 12:35-37

If Jesus is YHWH, who is the one sitting next to Him?

[1213]

Let's begin with Isaiah 6:1. Isaiah wrote, "I saw also the Lord (Adonay) sitting upon a throne," In this verse, the watchtower has decided to change (Adonay or Lord) to Jehovah. ...

I can agree that the word is Adonay. And I believe it is possible Jesus sat on the throne. But, is there any good reason to think it makes him the God?

Yes, the best reason that Jesus is God is from the words of the Father Whom said to the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever."

Sorry, I don't think it is God speaking in that Psalm. I think it is David who sings about God and also about his king. And I don't think it is saying Jesus is the God.