The consistent events from Jesus' burial to His ascension

[RBD]

Here is the consistent timeline in order from the burial of Jesus, to His ascension 40 days later.

Many women from Galilee follow Joseph and Nicodemus to see Jesus laid in the tomb. Magdalen and the other Mary are specifically mentioned. (John 19) (Mark 15) Afterward that evening, some of the other women go home to prepare spices and ointments for Jesus' body. (Luke 23)

The next day on the high Sabbath, the chief priests go to Pilate for a guard on the tomb. (Matthew 27)

In the night, there's another earthquake, and an angel in appearance as lighting rolls away the stone, making the soldiers become as dead. (Matthew 28) Jesus either resurrects at this time, or any time during the night beforehand. At some time in the night, the guards awaken and depart the empty tomb, to report to the chief priests.

Magdalen comes later in the dark before dawn, and finds the tomb empty. She tells Peter and the other disciple, and they come running to see the tomb empty. They enter to see and depart. (John 20)

Magdalen remains behind and sees two angels in the tomb, and then Jesus Himself alive outside the tomb. She is the first person on earth to see Him after His resurrection. While still dark, she returns again to tell the disciples of His resurrection, and they don't believe it. (John 20) (Mark 16)

Magdalen, the other Mary, Salome, and the other women from Galilee, including Joanna, arrive at the tomb in the morning light. One group arrives with their prepared spices and ointments, while Magdalen's group arrives with bought sweet spices. They find the tomb empty. (Mark 16) (Luke 24)

Magdalen, the other Mary, and Salome are met by the angel that rolled away the stone, and are told to see in the tomb where the Lord had lain. Another angel sitting therein tell them to tell the disciples to go to Galilee to see Jesus. (Matthew 28) (Mark 16) The other women including Joanna enter the tomb and see no one, and while standing outside are met by two more angels, that send them also to the disciples to go to Galilee to meet Jesus. (Luke 24)

All the women depart and en route meet Jesus, and hold His feet in worship. He also sends them all to tell the disciples to meet Him in Galilee. They all then tell the disciples these things, and they don't believe it. (Matthew 28)

Peter runs to the tomb a second time and ponders these things. (Luke 24)

Jesus next appears to Cleopas and another disciple on the road to Emmaus, and later toward evening they recognize Him at table, and He vanishes from their sight. In that hour, they go to the eleven to tell them of Jesus' resurrection. They don't believe it. Luke 24) (Mark 16) Peter has now also seen the Lord Jesus. Paul reports that Jesus also appeared to James at some time.

At evening, Jesus now first appears to the disciples with the others in the their midst, and shows He is indeed resurrected bodily from the dead, and not only a spirit, by showing His hands and side, and eats some fish. Thomas is not with them. (Luke 24) (John 20)

8 days later, He appears to the eleven with Thomas as they sat at meat, and upbraids them for their unbelief, and also challenges Thomas to insert His fingers into his hands, and his hand into Jesus' side. (Mark 16) (John 20)

Afterward on another day, Peter goes a fishin' at the sea of Galilee with 6 other disciples, including Thomas, Nathanael, the sons of thunder, and 2 other disciples. For the third time after His resurrection, Jesus meets His disciples on the Galilee shore with food on a fire. They all know Him. (John 21)

Afterward on another day, all the disciples meet Jesus at the Galilee mount, that He had appointed them, and worshipped Him. Some doubted what to do. (Matthew 28)

On the 40th day after His resurrection, He leads all the disciples and many others to Bethany on Mt Olivet. (Luke 24) (Acts 1) There He gives His great commission with promise of the Holy Ghost, and ascends to heaven to be recieved up in a cloud. The disciples remain standing and looking upward for Jesus, until two angels come to remind them to go to Jerusalem, and wait for the promise of the Father.

These are a consistent order of events from the 4 gospels and Acts 1.

Paul confirms Peter saw the Lord first before the other apostles, on the evening of the first day of His resurrection, and that above 500 saw Him during the 40 days after. He was also seen by James after the evening of the first day, either before His second appearance to them on the 8th day, or afterward before the sea of Galilee for the third time.

[RBD]

... in the dark before dawn. With enough time for Magdalen to arrive, fetch the disciples, who run to the grave and back, and Magdalen first seeing the Lord looking like a gardener in the dark, before she then leaves to return later at dawn with other women.

This is extremely confusing to me. Are you suggesting that Mary visited the grave in the night. Ran and told Peter and John (in the night). They ran to see the empty tomb for themselves in the night and puzzled return home in the night. Mary then sees "the gardener" still in the night. She realizes its the risen Christ who tells her to go and inform the Apostles.

No child would be confused by it. Just certain things going on in the night of Jesus' resurrection from a tomb.

It's only confusing for people who disbelieve what the record plainly says. That's not confusion from the record, but disbelief in the record.

She returns a second time to inform the Apostles again in the same night (they don't believe her) she then returns home (in the same night) gets a little sleep and then gets up and returns to the tomb with the other women not telling them that she has seen Christ alive?

This of course is where confusion is brought into the record, first by not believing it, and then by adding to it.

No record of the apostles returning to the tomb, nor of Mary returning home and sleeping. Only of Mary returning to the tomb in the morning with other women, after first seeing Jesus there in the darkness beforehand.

The gospels contain no statement that the Apostles visited the tomb in the night (or in darkness) nor is there any statement that Mary did not recognise Jesus because it was dark.

True. But since it all happened before Mary returns with women at early morning light, then those things were still in darkness.

The Author of a record is not required to state the obvious, in order to placate the disbelievers in the record. 'While it was still dark...' is not necessary at every juncture of events, that began in the darkness, and ended before the first rays of rosy-fingered dawn.

Rom 3:3
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

[JehovahsWitness]

Well, Peter and John ran in a race in the dark to get to the tomb.

Where is the scripture that states they ran "in the dark" ? (I am not asking for your opinion, just for you to provide the direct quote with the name Peter (and his companion) ran (quote) "in the dark".

[RBD]

I'll no longer argue the difference between in the dark vs in the morning light. There is a clear separation between the dark, and the first hint of morning on the horizon.

Yes but unless you are going to take an "anti-science" position, the fact is the distinction is not hours it's literally minutes.

The time spent in the darkness before dawn, has nothing to do with the time between darkness and first light of dawn. Which is not minutes, but seconds to those seeing her first rosy-fingered rays on the horizon.

One of the times I was moving all night, and needing sleep so bad, that I was whispering to a tree, thinking it was the man in front. The very moment I noticed the faintest light of morn, I immediately wakened. It didn't take minutes for me to know that the darkness was past, and the early morning was come.

And in grammatical comprehension, when a record says specifically in darkness, then it is specifically not in early morning. Especially when the record later continues with the early morning after the darkness.

Both your unbelief in the record, and poor science, are no good to the truth.

[RBD]

How one fits the facts in to the narrative is a matter of opinion, but FACTS do not vary under the weight of personal opinion.

How one fits the facts in a record is a matter of factual record. Facts of the record do not vary under the burden of personal objection to the recorded facts.

The fact is that the women could have made a single initial visit, arriving literally minutes apart to fit the various gospel narratives about darkness and light .

The fact is that the later factual record must be changed by omitting a certain earlier fact, in order to have the women arrive minutes apart, rather than all arriving with Mary together in the morning light, and not with her earlier in darkness.

Your refusal to even acknowledge and properly address this fact indicates you haven't given due weight to the astronomical framework within which a proper analysis should normally take place.

Your refusal to even acknowledge you are changing the record, to avoid certain facts, proves you don't care about the record. And play astronomical gamework instead.

One of the several ways to spot changing a record, is by prolonged unnecessary and self-pretentious arguments, that are only added to change the simple recorded facts.

Eph 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

[RBD]

Well, Peter and John ran in a race in the dark to get to the tomb.

Where is the scripture that states they ran "in the dark" ? (I am not asking for your opinion, just for you to provide the direct quote with the name Peter (and his companion) ran (quote) "in the dark".

True. It is the necessary conclusion of events that began in the dark. 'While it was still dark...' is not necessary at every juncture of events, that were concluded before that of the first morning light.

And so, by the letter of the record, your are correct. By the necessity of the record, I am correct.

2Co 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not only of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

[JehovahsWitness]

Well, Peter and John ran in a race in the dark to get to the tomb.

Where is the scripture that states they ran "in the dark" ? (I am not asking for your opinion, just for you to provide the direct quote with the name Peter (and his companion) ran (quote) "in the dark".

True. ... by the letter of the record, your are correct.

Thank you, and if you now would like to acknowledge the FACT that just before dawn the difference between darkness, light and sunrise is separated by a matter of minutes, that at least would show a realistic approach to the narrative. Perhaps you hesistate to acknowledge this fact because it would mean that Mary could have arrived in the in the dark (as per the gospel narrative) and ran and told Peter and John about the empty tomb and returned with them in the light of the morning and there is nothing in the gospel narrative that makes the above impossible (ie the gospels do not say that Peter and John ran back with her "in the dark")

[RBD]

Well, Peter and John ran in a race in the dark to get to the tomb.

Where is the scripture that states they ran "in the dark" ? (I am not asking for your opinion, just for you to provide the direct quote with the name Peter (and his companion) ran (quote) "in the dark".

True. ... by the letter of the record, your are correct.

Thank you, and if you now would like to acknowledge the FACT that just before dawn the difference between darkness, light and sunrise is separated by a matter of minutes, that at least would show a realistic approach to the narrative. Perhaps you hesistate to acknowledge this fact because it would mean that Mary could have arrived in the in the dark (as per the gospel narrative) and ran and told Peter and John about the empty tomb and returned with them in the light of the morning and there is nothing in the gospel narrative that makes the above impossible (ie the gospels do not say that Peter and John ran back with her "in the dark")

Already showed to you how the record has only women arriving and interacting at the tomb in the morning. No male apostles were standing around the tomb in the morning, and being left out of the narrative.

You seem to be clinging to a false narrative, simply because it's one you've thought of, and don't want to be corrected. In any case, once again, nothing new here, so unless there is something new, then been interesting and fun. Thanks.

[JehovahsWitness]

Already showed to you how the record has only women arriving and interacting at the tomb in the morning.

THE MEN

Nobody is suggesting that any of the male disciples were present during the initial "darkness" /"sunrise" /"dawn" visit(s) of the women (only), but it is reasonable to assume that if that initial visit(s) did happen somewhere between 5.10 - 6.00 am the pursuing events (ie Mary M. immediately running to the Apostles and returning with them to the tomb) would still tecnically "in the morning" ie before noon. In any case there is no statement in scripture that Peter and his companion (John) did NOT arrive in the morning (nor is there any statement in the gospels that the men arrived "in the afternoon" or "during the darkness of night")

[JehovahsWitness]

THE WOMEN

In the region of Jerusalem during Passover season

• - Astronomical dawn: ~4:45–5:00 AM (very dark, first faint light—not really visible for activity)
  - Nautical dawn: ~5:10–5:25 AM (dim horizon glow)
  - Civil dawn: ~5:25–5:40 AM (enough light to see and move around outdoors)
  - “Sunrise” (~6:00 AM) the sun appearing or shortly thereafter

NOTE In everyday language (both ancient and modern), phrases like “dawn,” “early,” and even “sunrise” are often approximate and overlapping, not precise clock times. People in the ancient world didn’t mark time by minutes—they described light conditions.

Gospel of John (John 20:1): Mary Magdalene comes “while it was still dark.” → before civil dawn ( ~4:45–5:00 AM)
Gospel of Matthew (Matthew 28:1): “Toward dawn” / “as it began to dawn.” → Nautical dawn: ~5:10–5:25 AM
Gospel of Luke (Luke 24:1): “At early dawn.” → around civil dawn (~5:25–5:40 AM)
Gospel of Mark (Mark 16:2): The women arrive “very early… just after sunrise.” (~6:00 AM)

All of these can comfortably occur within about an hour window on a spring morning in Jerusalem





JW



What TIME of day did the women first visit the tomb?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 5#p1185945

To read more please go to other posts related to...

THE RESURRECTION , JESUS RESURRECTION and ... RESSURECTION CHRONOLOGY

[Avoice]

[Replying to RBD in post #1]

First of all, in death women don't attend to the bodies of men. And men don't attend to the bodies of women.
And once someone is buried or entombed no one brings spices. That is done before. It's so the body doesn't smell while still around the living.

The story doesn't even make sense.

Women NEVER attend to the the bodies of men. Never. Not Jews