"Take my word for it, or his, or this book"

[Zzyzx]

Most of us probably know better than to believe everything said or written. If someone tells us they can fly by flapping their arms, our response is likely disbelief and a request that they ‘show me’. If they refuse to demonstrate or fail in flapping, we regard their claim as false. Agreed?

If a person claims to have come back to life after being dead for days none of us are likely to believe the claim unless it could be verified. Right?

If someone writes that fifty years ago a long-dead person came back to life and flew away into the sky, what would be your / our likely reaction? Would we be convinced if they say ‘many saw him’?

What would it take to convince us that the tale was true?

[tam]

Peace again to you,

[Replying to tam in post #69]

You are avoiding the point,

I don't think I am, RWJ.

Are Christians called to walk by faith? Yes or no?

I am not willing to move on until this issue is resolved one way or the other. You used the example of communication to a certain group of friends that they could call you anytime, in order to demonstrate that this communication to this certain group of friends did not necessitate that only this group of friends could call you anytime. I agreed with this, but it is also true that since you were only communicating to a certain group of friends, we cannot conclude from this communication to a certain group of friends, that this offer could be applied to any and all of your friends.

You also cannot conclude that it DOESN'T apply to any and all of my friends. Which was the entire point.

If Christians are called to walk by faith, then why take issue with the words that I wrote:

The reason I support the things I share with what is written is so that you and others can see for yourselves what is written. Because although we are called to walk by faith, most people walk by sight until (and unless) they learn to walk by faith... faith, which is heard.

So then, before we move on, can we agree that simply because something was communicated to audiences in the Bible, does not mean that what was communicated would apply to us?

It depends upon what it is, but yes, we can agree that just because something was said to someone in the bible does not mean that it applies to others/us/everyone.

Peace again.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to tam in post #71]

It depends upon what it is, but yes, we can agree that just because something was said to someone in the bible does not mean that it applies to others/us/everyone.

This is all I really asked, and we will get to the rest later. So then, how is it that we can determine those things which are intended for all of us as Christians, as opposed to what would have only been intended for the audience at the time. As an example, Jesus, when speaking only to the eleven apostles at the time commands them to "go into all the world preaching the gospel to all nations." Would this be a command only to the apostles He was speaking to at the time? Or would this be a command to all of us as Christians? Why, and or why not, and how did you determine this?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[

quote=Realworldjack post_id=1184089 time=1772627554 user_id=9694]
[Replying to tam in post #71]

It depends upon what it is, but yes, we can agree that just because something was said to someone in the bible does not mean that it applies to others/us/everyone.

This is all I really asked, and we will get to the rest later.

Perhaps you might considering answering the question I asked then.

Are Christians called to walk by faith? Yes or no?

So then, how is it that we can determine those things which are intended for all of us as Christians, as opposed to what would have only been intended for the audience at the time. As an example, Jesus, when speaking only to the eleven apostles at the time commands them to "go into all the world preaching the gospel to all nations." Would this be a command only to the apostles He was speaking to at the time? Or would this be a command to all of us as Christians? Why, and or why not, and how did you determine this?

viewtopic.php?p=1183923#p1183923

May I suggest that you read the entire post. Because I have responded to this question (and to most questions that you have asked in this or other posts.)


Peace again.

[OneJack]

As an example, Jesus, when speaking only to the eleven apostles at the time commands them to "go into all the world preaching the gospel to all nations." Would this be a command only to the apostles He was speaking to at the time?

Absolutely, YES! Why? The eleven (11) apostles underwent rigid teachings and OJTs from Jesus, which were the things that equipped the eleven (11) apostles to execute Jesus’ command accurately and on a concrete basis.

Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Btw, the Lord Jesus told us that Matt 28:19 is wrongly worded in the last part, and He provided us the correct narrative for that part, to wit:

Go forth and make all nations My servants and disciples, and I bless you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Or would this be a command to all of us as Christians?

Christians, in every generation, have specific commands they received from the real and forever living Christ Jesus, who shepherds and guides them to their salvation and eternal life. The question is not for Christians in this regard.

Why,

Jesus’ command requires qualifications, which emanate only from Jesus.

and or why not,

It takes Jesus [not the bible] for anyone today to disciple all nations.

and how did you determine this?

We learned these things from the Lord Jesus who shepherded and guided us for approximately fourteen (14) years.

[William]

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #67]

This is SO, SO, FUNNY! You would not know a thing about the life of Jesus, His crucifixion, nor His resurrection without what is contained in the Bible, but we cannot be certain about anything which is communicated in the Bible.

This is why faith is an aspect - the first stone to step upon - as it were.

Those who conflate "God" with "The Bible" generally accept that they can have a relationship WITH God simply by believing what the bible says. They search the scriptures daily BECAUSE they think therein, THAT is where their relationship with GOD is.

They conflate relationship with bible as being the same things as relationship with GOD.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to tam in post #73]

Okay, as we go back and look at the post you are referring to, the only part which pertains to my point as to whether the command to the apostles to "go into all the world preaching the gospel" would be this,

This is a good question. Not even the apostles went to every nation though

Okay, well here you would be arguing with Paul because, Paul told the Colossians in chapter 1 and verse 23,

if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Now, I do not know what "all creation under heaven" means, but Paul claims the "gospel was proclaimed in all creation under heaven." I will also point out the fact that the name of Jesus is probably one of the most, if not the most well-known name in the history of the world. The point is, I would say that the gospel is probably one of the most well-known proclamations in the world.

so it would seem to extend to people beyond them.

Does it "SEEM" this way? Or was the command to the apostles a command to all Christians? Because you see, you want to claim that since Jesus spoke to the disciples on the road to Damascus shortly after His resurrection, this is evidence that we all as Christians have this sort of communication, while at the same time not being sure if the "Great Commission" is a command to just those who were there when Jesus gave the command, or if it was a command to all of us as Christians.

The thing is, when Jesus speaks to the disciples on the road to Damascus, it does not even seem as if this is being reported as if this sort of thing should be the norm for all Christians, and yet you use this passage in your defense. On the other hand, when we have a clear command to the apostles, you want to say this sort of command may not be intended for all of us as Christians. The fact is you now seem to want to insist, the command may still be in effect since it would "seem to extend to people beyond them." What people would this command extend too?

The whole point is, it is beyond clear that you are picking and choosing those things in scripture which you prefer to apply to you, while rejecting those things which you would prefer not to have to experience. Communication with Jesus on the road to Damascus? Yeah, I'll take that experience. Going into all the world and preaching the gospel to all nations? No thank you, I think I will pass on that one. Or how about this promise from Paul,

Indeed, all who want to live in a godly way in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

Are you living a Godly life in Christ Jesus? Are you being persecuted? This seems to be a promise made, but does it pertain to all of us as Christians? Again, it is clear you are picking and choosing what it is you prefer which applies to you. Moreover, you are demonstrating one who lacks the ability to interpret scripture correctly, on top of the fact that you even tell us that you lack such an ability, which is demonstrating beyond a reasonable doubt that you do not hear from Jesus directly.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #73]

Okay, as we go back and look at the post you are referring to, the only part which pertains to my point as to whether the command to the apostles to "go into all the world preaching the gospel" would be this,

This is a good question. Not even the apostles went to every nation though

Okay, well here you would be arguing with Paul because, Paul told the Colossians in chapter 1 and verse 23,

if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Now, I do not know what "all creation under heaven" means, but Paul claims the "gospel was proclaimed in all creation under heaven." I will also point out the fact that the name of Jesus is probably one of the most, if not the most well-known name in the history of the world. The point is, I would say that the gospel is probably one of the most well-known proclamations in the world.

I am not arguing with Paul on this matter. You are suggesting that the 12 apostles went to every nation on the planet. Paul doesn't make that claim. Paul says the gospel has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven. He does not state how or by whom.

so it would seem to extend to people beyond them.

Does it "SEEM" this way?

Yes.

Or was the command to the apostles a command to all Christians? Because you see, you want to claim that since Jesus spoke to the disciples on the road to Damascus shortly after His resurrection, this is evidence that we all as Christians have this sort of communication,

That is not my claim.

I know Christ lives and speaks because I hear His voice. What is written provides evidence of this truth (more than just my testimony) - since Christ Himself said this would happen, and since we have NUMEROUS examples of Him speaking to His sheep just as He SAID He would (and He is not a liar).

while at the same time not being sure if the "Great Commission" is a command to just those who were there when Jesus gave the command, or if it was a command to all of us as Christians.

Clearly more than just the 11 apostles have been sent to bear witness to Christ.

It is just that some people may look at the word 'command' and feel obligated to do so (often by religion) when in fact bearing witness is something that is done out of love, whenever and wherever that love and the spirit move us.

Remember the parable of the talents - one person was given five, another three, another just one. How 'much' or how 'little' a person receives and spends is between them and Christ. Remember the woman who put two coins in the temple, compared with people putting a lot in, but she had given all she had?

The thing is, when Jesus speaks to the disciples on the road to Damascus, it does not even seem as if this is being reported as if this sort of thing should be the norm for all Christians, and yet you use this passage in your defense.

I'm afraid I don't know what you are talking about here. What passage is it you think I used?

On the other hand, when we have a clear command to the apostles, you want to say this sort of command may not be intended for all of us as Christians.

I believe I said the following in that post (which you have either ignored or missed):

If one is a witness to Christ, then one bears witness to Him (it is kind of in the title) wherever they may be - and this is done out of LOVE for Him. If I receive something more on this matter and can share it, I will.

For me - not that I am anyone or anything, a poor and undeserving servant - I have gone where/to whom I have been sent by my Lord.

Not everyone must (or is even able) to travel the world. Not even the apostles went to every nation on the planet. Although logistically speaking, especially today, we can bear witness to various cities and nations without even leaving our homes (for example, I am in a different part of the world than most people on this forum.)

The fact is you now seem to want to insist, the command may still be in effect since it would "seem to extend to people beyond them." What people would this command extend too?

No mystery here. I am talking about others who belong to Christ.

The whole point is, it is beyond clear that you are picking and choosing those things in scripture which you prefer to apply to you, while rejecting those things which you would prefer not to have to experience.

I did not reject anything for myself, RWJ.

Communication with Jesus on the road to Damascus? Yeah, I'll take that experience. Going into all the world and preaching the gospel to all nations? No thank you, I think I will pass on that one. Or how about this promise from Paul,

Indeed, all who want to live in a godly way in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

Are you living a Godly life in Christ Jesus? Are you being persecuted? This seems to be a promise made, but does it pertain to all of us as Christians? Again, it is clear you are picking and choosing what it is you prefer which applies to you.

Of course Paul means that to pertain to all 'who want to live in a godly way in Christ [Jesus]'. Note the word Paul used: "ALL" who want...

ALL. Not some. Not the apostles only. ALL.

Regardless of what Paul said though, Christ said Himself:

Blessed are you when people hate you, and when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil because of the Son of Man. 23Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. Luke 6:22-23


Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to tam in post #77]

Sorry for the delay, but I am working on a post which will pretty much end your claim that you hear directly from Jesus. However, I would like to get some clarification on this comment of yours,

I know Christ lives and speaks because I hear His voice.

Are you hearing an actual voice?

[tam]

Peace to you,

quote=Realworldjack post_id=1184384 time=1773316692 user_id=9694]
[Replying to tam in post #77]

Sorry for the delay, but I am working on a post which will pretty much end your claim that you hear directly from Jesus. However,

".... However, I need you to help me do it, so please answer my question...."


LOL. Sorry, but I found that quite amusing.

I would like to get some clarification on this comment of yours,

I know Christ lives and speaks because I hear His voice.

Are you hearing an actual voice?

Did Phillip?

Acts 8:29

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to tam in post #79]

Tammy, all you continue to do is to filibuster. The question is, do you hear a voice? You do not answer a question by asking a question. Do you hear the actual voice of Jesus?