Original Sin

[Zzyzx]

Is the Adam and Eve story true? Unless the story is true, the concept of ‘original sin’ has no meaning, and there was no need for Jesus to 'save' humanity from 'original sin'.

From: Ebsco (dot) com
“Original sin is a Christian doctrine that teaches all humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam and Eve due to their disobedience to God in the Garden of Eden. This condition affects every person, making them morally and spiritually flawed from birth, and is often seen as a barrier to a relationship with God.”

From: U.S. Catholic (dot) org
"According to Christian belief, Jesus' sacrifice is seen as a means to save humanity from original sin, which is the state of sin inherited from Adam and Eve. This salvation is believed to be available to all who have faith in Him."

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #30]

How have you shown that "the Almighty God" is the one anf only deity?

Not me, but the Lord God says, “I am the one true God existing in heaven, earth, or the universe. Remember, eternal life and your salvation are in My hands.”

The last sentence proves our lives are not in our hands since death continues to conquer the lives of all people, no exceptions.

How is my "opinion" any less legitimate than yours?

Your opinion is based on pure invention - the ‘other gods’ that don’t exist.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #31]

How have you shown that "the Almighty God" is the one anf only deity?

Not me, but the Lord God says, “I am the one true God existing in heaven, earth, or the universe. Remember, eternal life and your salvation are in My hands.”

The last sentence proves our lives are not in our hands since death continues to conquer the lives of all people, no exceptions.

Why doesn't he say that to everyone?

And the last sentence simply makes a statement; it doesn't prove anything.


How is my "opinion" any less legitimate than yours?

Your opinion is based on pure invention - the ‘other gods’ that don’t exist.

Earlier you criticized me for not bringing any "utterances" to support my proposition. Do you believe that an angel talked with Joseph Smith? Do you believe that an angel dictated the Quran to Muhammed? Those utterances have been claimed. If it's utterances you depend on, how can you be quick to dismiss them when they're addressed to others?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #32]

Why doesn't he say that to everyone?

Everyone sees death around us continues to take a toll on us.

And the last sentence simply makes a statement; it doesn't prove anything.

Wait for your time to cross the Great Divide, you’ll see this coming true for yourself.

Earlier you criticized me for not bringing any "utterances" to support my proposition. Do you believe that an angel talked with Joseph Smith?

Let’s just say ‘spirit being’ talked to JS. What’s the big deal about that?

Do you believe that an angel dictated the Quran to Muhammed?

I have no knowledge about it.

Those utterances have been claimed. If it's utterances you depend on, how can you be quick to dismiss them when they're addressed to others?

For as long as it is not the Almighty who talks to and sends anyone, there’s nothing to take from them.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #33]

And the last sentence simply makes a statement; it doesn't prove anything.

Wait for your time to cross the Great Divide, you’ll see this coming true for yourself.

In the book of Genesis, Adam and Eve are told to be fruitful and multiply, filling the earth with their progeny. If that process had continued without mortality, humans----not to mention other life forms----would have overpopulated the earth and exhausted its resources many generations ago. Death on earth is necessary for life on earth to continue.


Those utterances have been claimed. If it's utterances you depend on, how can you be quick to dismiss them when they're addressed to others?

For as long as it is not the Almighty who talks to and sends anyone, there’s nothing to take from them.

What criteria do you use to select which utterances to believe and which to dismiss? Do they have to be written in the right book? If so, what makes one book right and all others wrong?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #34]

In the book of Genesis, Adam and Eve are told to be fruitful and multiply, filling the earth with their progeny. If that process had continued without mortality, humans----not to mention other life forms----would have overpopulated the earth and exhausted its resources many generations ago. Death on earth is necessary for life on earth to continue.

Granting you hit the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow in this issue, the existence of the Almighty God is still clearly portrayed in this scenario.

But what you’ve offered was an opinion far apart from what the Lord taught us. The Lord could instantly double the earth’s size to accommodate overpopulation.

What criteria do you use to select which utterances to believe and which to dismiss?

Actually, we don’t have to believe utterances as if they were God, even the pure and authentic utterances of God written in any books, be they the Bible or not. Utterances of God are testimonies to Himself so that the people reading them may know there is really God, the only belief that we have to put into practice before we decide to come to and call upon God to know Him and attain salvation and eternal life. The Lord God will be the one to teach everything our souls need, not those utterances, per se.

The criteria here is everything we’ve heard and learned from the Lord.

Do they have to be written in the right book?

It depends on the instruction of the Lord whether they have to be written or not, there is no big deal in this context.

If so, what makes one book right and all others wrong?

Since books cannot save our souls and are not essential for knowing God, we don’t have to waste our time assessing the importance of one book over another.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #35]

But what you’ve offered was an opinion far apart from what the Lord taught us. The Lord could instantly double the earth’s size to accommodate overpopulation.

How long would that process go on? Until the earth engulfed the entire solar system? The entire galaxy?

Actually, we don’t have to believe utterances as if they were God, even the pure and authentic utterances of God written in any books, be they the Bible or not. Utterances of God are testimonies to Himself so that the people reading them may know there is really God, the only belief that we have to put into practice before we decide to come to and call upon God to know Him and attain salvation and eternal life. The Lord God will be the one to teach everything our souls need, not those utterances, per se.

The criteria here is everything we’ve heard and learned from the Lord.

Then testimonies of God can be found in spiritual texts other than the Bible?

Since books cannot save our souls and are not essential for knowing God, we don’t have to waste our time assessing the importance of one book over another.

Then, again, a spiritual book from another religion can be as legitimate as the Bible?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #35]

But what you’ve offered was an opinion far apart from what the Lord taught us. The Lord could instantly double the earth’s size to accommodate overpopulation.

How long would that process go on? Until the earth engulfed the entire solar system? The entire galaxy?

C’mon man! That will not be the case since the universe is without bounds and limits, as God is in His fullness.

Actually, we don’t have to believe utterances as if they were God, even the pure and authentic utterances of God written in any books, be they the Bible or not. Utterances of God are testimonies to Himself so that the people reading them may know there is really God, the only belief that we have to put into practice before we decide to come to and call upon God to know Him and attain salvation and eternal life. The Lord God will be the one to teach everything our souls need, not those utterances, per se.

The criteria here is everything we’ve heard and learned from the Lord.

Then testimonies of God can be found in spiritual texts other than the Bible?

Testimonies to God can be found even in handwritten notes of the messengers of God today, not only in the bible. The books of other religion are non- negotiable since religion is not applicable with God.

Since books cannot save our souls and are not essential for knowing God, we don’t have to waste our time assessing the importance of one book over another.

Then, again, a spiritual book from another religion can be as legitimate as the Bible?

No, as I said, religion is N/A with God.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #37]

How long would that process go on? Until the earth engulfed the entire solar system? The entire galaxy?

C’mon man! That will not be the case since the universe is without bounds and limits, as God is in His fullness.

If humans were meant to continually produce new generations on earth with no generation ever suffering death then that would have to be the plan, wouldn't it? Needing an outlandish suspension of astrophysics to increase the earth's size ad infinitum is the price you pay for making death an aberration rather than a natural feature of biology.

Testimonies to God can be found even in handwritten notes of the messengers of God today, not only in the bible. The books of other religion are non- negotiable since religion is not applicable with God.

So only Bible-friendly notes get your seal of approval? What makes your seal of approval better than someone else's? Are you claiming to be wiser and more perceptive than everyone whose beliefs differ from yours?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #37]

How long would that process go on? Until the earth engulfed the entire solar system? The entire galaxy?

C’mon man! That will not be the case since the universe is without bounds and limits, as God is in His fullness.

If humans were meant to continually produce new generations on earth with no generation ever suffering death then that would have to be the plan, wouldn't it?

Agree!

Needing an outlandish suspension of astrophysics to increase the earth's size ad infinitum is the price you pay for making death an aberration rather than a natural feature of biology.

Even though nothing is impossible with God, He didn’t plan it in accordance with your presentation. He made us suffer death to prevent overpopulation on Earth.

Testimonies to God can be found even in handwritten notes of the messengers of God today, not only in the bible. The books of other religion are non- negotiable since religion is not applicable with God.

So only Bible-friendly notes get your seal of approval?

There is nothing at all that gets my seal of approval, which is non-existent, btw. The sole purpose of those utterances, as I said, is to testify to the Almighty and draw us to come to God for our salvation and eternal life. We don’t have to treat them as if they were the Almighty Himself.

What makes your seal of approval better than someone else's?

How could that be when there is no such thing as the ‘seal of approval’ that you only opine?

Are you claiming to be wiser and more perceptive than everyone whose beliefs differ from yours?

No, I’m still nothing, come what may!

[Avoice]

[Replying to Zzyzx in post #1]

If it were true, Cain and Abel would have been the first infected. Right?

Is it true? Doesn't anyone listen to God? Has he daid anything that supports this? Or has he said anything that does not support this?

Let me ask you this: Would God tell man that if he flapped his arms he can fly if that was not possible? NO

I'll let God take it from here. He is speaking to Cain. If man is unable to do good then why would God say this to Cain?

"Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

Does what God said tell us that we are able to do good or unable to do good? Simple question. Now who has the audacity to twist the words God spoke?

God says we can do good. The church teaches man can not. Does man have a choice?
I know man has a choice. We can listen to God or we can not. God believes I can rule over sin. That I can do good. I believe him.

So you think you couldnt stop lying for even a week? If youd receive a million dollars at the end of the week I bet you could. You can do good. If that is what you choose. You ARE capable of doing good. And you could prove it. God says you can. And you know you can. You may not want to but you can.