One verse condems the Watchtower.

[placebofactor]

In the Watchtower's first three publications, or copywrites of the Bible, 1961, 1971, and in 1984, they claimed that they "Rendered from the Original Languages. And this was done by the New World Bible Translation Committee".

No one knows who was in this committee, nor does anyone know the qualifications of any of these people, so we will call them the unknowns. And they expect people to follow these unknowns with blind trust.

Up until 1960, the Jehovah's Witnesses used the King James Bible, but their teachings hit too many brick walls. So, they rewrote the Bible to satisfy their false doctrines. Now, from their own Bible are the words that condemn them and their organization.

New World Translation 1981 edition, Revelation 22:18, "I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;"

Strong words for false prophets.
In their 1984 edition, they wrote in Colossians 1:16, speaking of Jesus Christ, the Son of God: "because by means of him all (other) things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones, or lordships, or governments or authorities. All (other) things have been created through him and for him."

Twice, they added in brackets the word (other), implying that Jesus was created first, and then he created all other things. Here, they were honest by acknowledging they added the word (other) twice in brackets. In their latest edition of the N.W.T., published in 2013, the Watchtower went a step further and got in the face of their God. They set aside His warning about (intentionally) adding words. In the 2013 edition, they claim, this new Bible was "Rendered from the (same) original languages." But they intentionally lied and removed the brackets from (other) and made it a part of God's original words, deceiving their own, and attempting to deceive everyone they come in contact with.

As far as I am concerned, they intend to deceive, so they change God's words into a lie, then claim to be "Holier than thou" by putting themselves back under strict rules." Don't believe me, check it out for yourself.

[Ross]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #18]

As I understand it, the writings of the Watchtower folks is to remain anonymous. This includes books, pamphlets, etc.
It is equally important that the translators of the Bible remain anonymous.
You may have the names of the COMMITTEE coordinating the work of the translators, but I doubt that you have the names of the actual translators themselves.

Your statement is nothing more that the cheapest and despicable spin.
There were no 'translators.'
Raymond Franz an ex member of the Governing Body revealed who was at work on this translation.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #18]

As I understand it, the writings of the Watchtower folks is to remain anonymous. This includes books, pamphlets, etc.
It is equally important that the translators of the Bible remain anonymous.
You may have the names of the COMMITTEE coordinating the work of the translators, but I doubt that you have the names of the actual translators themselves.

Your statement is nothing more that the cheapest and despicable spin.
There were no 'translators.'
Raymond Franz an ex member of the Governing Body revealed who was at work on this translation.

So, what does the Watchtower have to hide? Answer, "Incompetence!!!"

[servant1]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #8]



Elohim means-the supreme one for the true living God in the Hebrew language= nothing plural about it for Jehovah.

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #9]



HE= not WE--a trinity = WE--a single being = HE.
That is why both spots teach creation was done-THROUGH Jesus( John 1:3-Col 1:16)--through= another did it.

[tygger2]

[Replying to servant1 in post #24]

That the Hebrew plural is often used for a singular noun to denote “a ‘plural’ of majesty or excellence” is well-known by all Biblical Hebrew language experts and has been known from at least the time of Gesenius (1786-1842), who is still regarded as one of the best authorities for Biblical Hebrew!

Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament (“long regarded as a standard work for students”), p. 49, shows that elohim, (“God/gods”) is sometimes used in a numerically plural sense for angels, judges, and false gods. But it also says,

“The plural of majesty [for elohim], occurs, on the other hand, more than two thousand times.” And that elohim when used in that sense “occurs in a [numerically] singular sense” and is “constr[ued] with a verb ... and adjective in the singular.”

Gesenius - Kautzsch’s Hebrew Grammar, 1949 ed., pp. 398, 399, says:
“The pluralis excellentiae or maiestatis ... is properly a variety of the abstract plural, since it sums up the several characteristics belonging to the idea, besides possessing the secondary sense of an intensification of the original idea. It is thus closely related to the plurals of amplification .... So, especially Elohim ... ‘God’ (to be distinguished from the plural ‘gods’, Ex. 12:12, etc.) .... That the language has entirely rejected the idea of numerical plurality in Elohim (whenever it denotes one God) is proved especially by its being almost invariably joined with a singular attribute.”

Peloubet’s Bible Dictionary, 1925 ed. Pg. 224:

Elohim "is either what grammarians call the plural of majesty, or it denotes the fullness of divine strength, the sum of the powers displayed by God."

More modern publications (trinitarian Protestant and Catholic) also make similar acknowledgments of the intended plural of majesty or excellence meaning for elohim. (See the New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. v., p. 287.)

Nelson’s Expository Dictionary of the Old Testament, describes elohim:

“The common plural form ‘elohim,’ a plural of majesty.” - Unger and White, 1980, p. 159.

Pluralis Majestatis: Biblical Hebrew
"The term ‘majestic plural’ or pluralis majestatis refers to the use of a plural word to refer
honorifically to a single person or entity. It is also called the ‘plural of respect’, the ‘honorific
plural’, the ‘plural of excellence’, or the ‘plural of intensity’. In the Hebrew Bible such plural
forms are most commonly used when referring to the God of Israel, e.g., adonim ‘I am a master (lit. ‘masters’)’ (Mal. 1.6), although it can also be used when referring to a human, e.g., abraham adonaw
‘Abraham his master (lit. ‘masters’)’ (Gen. 24.9), an object, e.g. gibroteka ‘your grave (lit. ‘graves’)’ (2 Kgs 22.20), ...." - ENCYCLOPEDIA OF HEBREW LANGUAGE AND LINGUISTICS, p. 145, vol. 3, 2013.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says:
“It is characteristic of Heb[rew] that extension, magnitude, and dignity, as well as actual multiplicity, are expressed by the pl[ural].” - Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1984 ed., Vol. II, p. 1265.

Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, 1982, Bethany House Publishers, written by trinitarian scholars, says of elohim:

“Applied to the one true God, it is the result in the Hebrew idiom of a plural magnitude or majesty. When applied to the heathen gods, angels, or judges ..., Elohim is plural in sense as well as form.” - p. 208.

The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. xxi, July 1905 (Aaron Ember) tells us: “several phenomena in the universe were designated in Hebrew by plural expressions because they inspired the Hebrew mind with the idea of greatness, majesty, grandeur, and holiness.”

Ember also says:

“Various theories have been advanced to explain the use of the plural elohim as a designation of the God of Israel. least plausible is the view of the Old Theologians, beginning with Peter Lombard (12th century A. D.), that we have in the plural form a reference to the Trinity .... that the language of the OT has entirely given up the idea of plurality [in number] in elohim (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular attribute.

“...elohim must rather be explained as an intensive plural denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to the Great God. It ranks with the plurals adonim [‘master’] and baalim [‘owner’, ‘lord’] employed with reference to [individual] human beings.”

Both Exodus 4:16 and 7:1 show God calling Moses "a god" (elohim). This alone shows the error of some that the plural elohim must mean a "plural oneness" unless we want to believe Moses was a multiple-person Moses!

And The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan Publishing, 1986, tells us:

“Elohim, though plural in form, is seldom used in the OT as such (i.e. ‘gods’). Even a single heathen god can be designated with the plural elohim (e.g. Jdg. 11:24; 1 Ki. 11:5; 2 Ki. 1:2). In Israel the plural is understood as the plural of fullness; God is the God who really, and in the fullest sense of the word, is God.” - p. 67, Vol. 2.

The NIV Study Bible says about elohim in its footnote for Gen. 1:1:

“This use of the plural expresses intensification rather than number and has been called the plural of majesty, or of potentiality.” – p. 6, Zondervan Publ., 1985.

A Dictionary of the Bible by William Smith (Smith’s Bible Dictionary, p. 220, Hendrickson Publ.) declares:

“The fanciful idea that [elohim] referred to the trinity of persons in the Godhead hardly finds now a supporter among scholars. It is either what grammarians call the plural of majesty, or it denotes the fullness of divine strength, the sum of the powers displayed by God.”

And the prestigious work edited by Hastings says about this:

"It is exegesis of a mischievous if pious sort that would find the doctrine of the Trinity in the plural form elohim [God]" ("God," Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics).

[placebofactor]

[Replying to Capbook in post #9]



HE= not WE--a trinity = WE--a single being = HE.
That is why both spots teach creation was done-THROUGH Jesus( John 1:3-Col 1:16)--through= another did it.

If another did it, why would they go through someone else? Makes no sense, not to people who have common sense.

Or are you saying Jesus was sent by the Father to create the heavens and the earth and everything in them? Or are you saying the Father SIFTED the creation through his Son, sort of like sifting flour.

Or are you saying Jesus was created, then after being created, he created the heaven and earth and everything in it? If number three, then he is the God of Genesis 1:1.

[servant1]

[Replying to tygger2 in post #25]

Undeniable fact--The Israelites never knew, taught, served , or worshipped the true God as a trinity. They served the true living God.

[servant1]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #26]


Prov 8 explains it. It wasn't easy to create his master worker direct. Then HE created all other things-THROUGH- his master worker.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #26]


Prov 8 explains it. It wasn't easy to create his master worker direct. Then HE created all other things-THROUGH- his master worker.

There you go, another Jehovah's Witness meaningless catchphrase, "MASTER-WORKER." Where in the heck do you people come up with this nonsense?

How do you create, build, or construct through another person? What nonsense. First, you claim Jesus was created, then you claim Colossians 1:16, "He created all other things." And in John 1:3, the N.W.T. states, "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." First, you say Jesus created all other things, then contradict yourself and say all things came into existence THROUGH HIM." Make up your mind.

If I plan to build a house and pay for it, then hire a builder to build it, I didn't build my home through the builder, I sent him to do the building, therefore, if the question came up, "Who built your house?" I would say the builder, not me. If I claimed I built it, I would be lying. You don't know what you're talking about.

[servant1]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #29]


ALL who can understand English knows 100% through means another did it. Bible proof= False religions twist Gen 1:26= ( us)=WE, but Gen 1:27 proves 100% HE created, not WE. As does Prov 8:27-28=HE created, not us or we.