Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

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Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1

Post by POI »

Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1011

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 11:22 am
1213 wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 12:19 am Bible doesn't say 'righteousness '= Jesus faith.
Yes, it does:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
That says "This righteousness is given through faith", not righteousness is Jesus faith.
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1012

Post by POI »

marke wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 3:21 am
POI wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 11:16 am
marke wrote: Sun May 11, 2025 9:09 pm
POI wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:20 pm Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.
Marke: The way of salvation is clear. All humans are born sinners and commit sins by nature. God is righteous and must judge sin. Jesus became the substitute for sinners by taking God's judgment of sin on Himself so that whosever would repent of his sins and seek God's forgiveness would be saved and given a home in heaven.
Here is the answer key, so far.

A) Unconditional grace - (Jesus already did all the dirty work, everyone goes now since he had to die for all, as all fall short)
B) Faith/belief - (accept him as your savior, ask him for guidance, apply trust in him)
C) Works - (necessary acts or tasks in which Jesus also deems 'good', and may also not include the attributes of B)
D) Both B) and C)
E) No one goes, no one is worthy
F) Other, which does not already include the topics of B) and/or C)

Looks like you are claiming answer D))? Please select one and then we can proceed from there. If it is answer F), please explain why none of the other answers apply.
Marke: If Jesus had not died in order to take away the sins of the world then nobody could have been saved. Because God is righteous He had to judge sin. Those who repent opf their sins and come to God on the basis of Jesus' shed blood for their sins will be forgiven and given a home in heaven. The faith that saves a sinner is exhibited by the sinner when he comes to jesus for forgiveness of his sins as God has prescribed in the Bible. Thos who get saved become new creatures and their lives reflect their changed nature in the works they do. If there has been no change then there will be no works and the sinner is still not given a promised home in heaven. Sinners do not earn passage to heaven by good works but by seeking forgiveness for their sins while still a sinner and will afterward remain in their corrupted earthly bodies until death even after salvation on earth.
Then is the answer B)?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1013

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 11:52 pm
POI wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 11:22 am
1213 wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 12:19 am Bible doesn't say 'righteousness '= Jesus faith.
Yes, it does:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
That says "This righteousness is given through faith", not righteousness is Jesus faith.
Is your answer B)?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1014

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 9:33 am
marke wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 3:21 am
POI wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 11:16 am
marke wrote: Sun May 11, 2025 9:09 pm
POI wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:20 pm Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.
Marke: The way of salvation is clear. All humans are born sinners and commit sins by nature. God is righteous and must judge sin. Jesus became the substitute for sinners by taking God's judgment of sin on Himself so that whosever would repent of his sins and seek God's forgiveness would be saved and given a home in heaven.
Here is the answer key, so far.

A) Unconditional grace - (Jesus already did all the dirty work, everyone goes now since he had to die for all, as all fall short)
B) Faith/belief - (accept him as your savior, ask him for guidance, apply trust in him)
C) Works - (necessary acts or tasks in which Jesus also deems 'good', and may also not include the attributes of B)
D) Both B) and C)
E) No one goes, no one is worthy
F) Other, which does not already include the topics of B) and/or C)

Looks like you are claiming answer D))? Please select one and then we can proceed from there. If it is answer F), please explain why none of the other answers apply.
Marke: If Jesus had not died in order to take away the sins of the world then nobody could have been saved. Because God is righteous He had to judge sin. Those who repent opf their sins and come to God on the basis of Jesus' shed blood for their sins will be forgiven and given a home in heaven. The faith that saves a sinner is exhibited by the sinner when he comes to jesus for forgiveness of his sins as God has prescribed in the Bible. Thos who get saved become new creatures and their lives reflect their changed nature in the works they do. If there has been no change then there will be no works and the sinner is still not given a promised home in heaven. Sinners do not earn passage to heaven by good works but by seeking forgiveness for their sins while still a sinner and will afterward remain in their corrupted earthly bodies until death even after salvation on earth.
Then is the answer B)?
Marke: Close enough.

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1015

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 9:33 am Is your answer B)?
My answer is, righteous people are saved by God's mercy. And eternal life is for righteous.
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1016

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 12:47 pm
POI wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 9:33 am Is your answer B)?
My answer is, righteous people are saved by God's mercy. And eternal life is for righteous.
And since the Bible God deems one as 'righteous' through their faith in Jesus, this means your answer is B), right?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1017

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 1:08 pm And since the Bible God deems one as 'righteous' through their faith in Jesus, this means your answer is B), right?
No, because faith is only the result of righteousness. If person is faithful (loyal) to Jesus, it shows the person is righteous.
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1018

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 10:57 pm
POI wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 1:08 pm And since the Bible God deems one as 'righteous' through their faith in Jesus, this means your answer is B), right?
No, because faith is only the result of righteousness. If person is faithful (loyal) to Jesus, it shows the person is righteous.
If faith and loyalty are synonymous, then the answer is still B).

ChatGPT:

In the Bible, faith is defined as trust and assurance in God and his promises, even when things are not visible or fully realized. It's not just a feeling or a vague belief, but a strong conviction that God's word is true and can be relied upon. Faith also involves acting on that belief, living in accordance with God's will, and actively trusting in him.

Here's a more detailed look at the biblical understanding of faith:

Confidence and Assurance: Faith is the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of things not seen, meaning that believers can trust God's promises even when they cannot see the results.

Trust in God: Faith is placing one's trust in God and having confidence that he will fulfill his promises.

Action and Obedience: Faith is not merely a passive belief but an active trust that should lead to obedience and good works.

Growth and Development: Faith is not a static state, but it grows and develops through prayer, study of the Bible, and living in obedience to God.

Salvation and Relationship: Faith is the primary way believers come to God and receive salvation. It's the foundation of a life lived in relationship with God.

God's Gift: The ability to believe and trust in God, including the faith needed to believe in Christ, is considered a gift from God.

******************************

Therefore, your answer is B). Or maybe it is D)?::

A) Unconditional grace - (Jesus already did all the dirty work, everyone goes now since he had to die for all, as all fall short)
B) Faith/belief - (accept him as your savior, ask him for guidance, apply trust in him)
C) Works - (necessary acts or tasks in which Jesus also deems 'good', and may also not include the attributes of B)
D) Both B) and C)
E) No one goes, no one is worthy
F) Other, which does not already include the topics of B) and/or C)
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1019

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 1:37 am ...
If faith and loyalty are synonymous, then the answer is still B).
....

Therefore, your answer is B). Or maybe it is D)?::
My answer is still what I said earlier. Righteous people are saved by God's mercy. And eternal life is for righteous. And I think that is the A, without your "everyone goes".
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1020

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 11:21 pm
POI wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 1:37 am ...
If faith and loyalty are synonymous, then the answer is still B).
....

Therefore, your answer is B). Or maybe it is D)?::
My answer is still what I said earlier. Righteous people are saved by God's mercy. And eternal life is for righteous. And I think that is the A, without your "everyone goes".
Unconditional grace would mean 'everyone goes'. Conditional grace would instead need to meet a set of conditions or standards. Since you reject' the conclusion of "everyone goes", and since you also state "loyalty", which is synonymous with "faith", then the logical answer is B) or D).
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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