Michael

[placebofactor]

Is Jesus Christ Michael the archangel?

[1213]

Jesus came to men in the O.T. in many forms. He showed himself as a man to Abraham. The two angels with him also showed themselves as men; Genesis 17.

Jesus came in the form of a man and wrestled with Jacob, Genesis 32:24. Jacob then wrote, verse 30, "I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

Jehovah (Jesus) came to Manoah and his wife as the angel of the LORD. His message to them was, Judges 13:3, "Behold no, thou art barren, and bear not: but you shall conceive, and bear a son." That son would be Samson.

Jesus came to Joshua in Joshua 2:14, As "the captain of the host of the LORD." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship." Joshua the leader of the Jews and of the Law worshipped Jehovah and Joshua worshipped the Son of God who came as the captain of the host of the LORD. He then said to Joshua, "Loose you shoes from off your foot; for the place whereon you stand is holy. And Joshua do so."

There are many cases like the above where the LORD Jesus came to men in different forms giving them different messages. He walked with Adam in the garden, Moses saw his backside, etc. etc.

Sorry, I can believe Jesus could have been there is many cases, but Bible doesn't say Jesus is Jehovah.

[placebofactor]

Jesus came to men in the O.T. in many forms. He showed himself as a man to Abraham. The two angels with him also showed themselves as men; Genesis 17.

Jesus came in the form of a man and wrestled with Jacob, Genesis 32:24. Jacob then wrote, verse 30, "I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

Jehovah (Jesus) came to Manoah and his wife as the angel of the LORD. His message to them was, Judges 13:3, "Behold no, thou art barren, and bear not: but you shall conceive, and bear a son." That son would be Samson.

Jesus came to Joshua in Joshua 2:14, As "the captain of the host of the LORD." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship." Joshua the leader of the Jews and of the Law worshipped Jehovah and Joshua worshipped the Son of God who came as the captain of the host of the LORD. He then said to Joshua, "Loose you shoes from off your foot; for the place whereon you stand is holy. And Joshua do so."

There are many cases like the above where the LORD Jesus came to men in different forms giving them different messages. He walked with Adam in the garden, Moses saw his backside, etc. etc.

Sorry, I can believe Jesus could have been there is many cases, but Bible doesn't say Jesus is Jehovah.

My Bible does: “Christ the Lord.” Luke 2:11 is the only place where these words come together; and there can be no other way to understand that “Lord” here corresponds to the Hebrew “Jehovah.” Even the N.W.T. agrees with it.

The Septuagint generally translates “Yehovah” by the Greek word “Kurios.” The Hebrew word “hayah,” = "he was," properly points out the eternity and self-existence of the Supreme being: So, “Kurios” is a proper translation or Yehovah, and comes from “I am, I exist.”

[1213]

My Bible does: “Christ the Lord.” Luke 2:11

The word Lord can means also other than Jehovah, for example because:

For though there are things that are called “gods”, whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many “gods” and many “lords”; yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
1 Cor. 8:5-6

[Revelations won]

Dear 1213,

Thank you for the clarification in your post #5. I observe you are doing a great job of stating your position.

May I suggest a few other scriptures that clearly refute the false “man made assumption that Michael is Christ”.


Daniel 7:
9
I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12
As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

We should clearly observe in the above revelations to Daniel that Jesus (The Son of Man) is not the ancient of days, since it is very clear that the “Son of Man” was brought before the “Ancient of Days” who then gave Him (“The Son of Man” dominion, glory and a kingdom etc.

Who in all heaven and earth could give unto the “Son of Man” such a kingdom, but one only who is none other than the Most high God, even God our Heavenly Father?

Further this clearly shows the “The Ancient of Days” is indeed Mighty Michael who only had this very sovereignty and full authority to give this everlasting kingdom unto his only begotten Son in the flesh.

This is further testified in Revelation 12 as quoted below.

Revelation 12: 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


We further observe in Acts 3: 19-21 That in the latter days that there must needs be a “Restoration” of all things in Christ since the world began. Obviously there would be absolutely none of such a restoration if these things had not be lost or removed in the first place.

Please also carefully observe that Christ himself would also come as the initial preluded to this restoration of all things


Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;


20
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


Why should men wonder at this divine restoration so prophesied in acts 13:35 thru 41?

Acts 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36
For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37
But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40
Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41
Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

In conclusion after you have carefully studied the above prophesies of Daniel, it should be obvious that Mighty Michael “The Ancient of Days” is indeed none other than the Most High God, even the Eternal father of the sprits of all mankind..Our Heavenly Father.

[placebofactor]

Dear 1213,

Thank you for the clarification in your post #5. I observe you are doing a great job of stating your position.

May I suggest a few other scriptures that clearly refute the false “man made assumption that Michael is Christ”.


Daniel 7:
9
I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12
As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

We should clearly observe in the above revelations to Daniel that Jesus (The Son of Man) is not the ancient of days, since it is very clear that the “Son of Man” was brought before the “Ancient of Days” who then gave Him (“The Son of Man” dominion, glory and a kingdom etc.

Who in all heaven and earth could give unto the “Son of Man” such a kingdom, but one only who is none other than the Most high God, even God our Heavenly Father?

Further this clearly shows the “The Ancient of Days” is indeed Mighty Michael who only had this very sovereignty and full authority to give this everlasting kingdom unto his only begotten Son in the flesh.

This is further testified in Revelation 12 as quoted below.

Revelation 12: 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


We further observe in Acts 3: 19-21 That in the latter days that there must needs be a “Restoration” of all things in Christ since the world began. Obviously there would be absolutely none of such a restoration if these things had not be lost or removed in the first place.

Please also carefully observe that Christ himself would also come as the initial preluded to this restoration of all things


Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;


20
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


Why should men wonder at this divine restoration so prophesied in acts 13:35 thru 41?

Acts 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36
For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37
But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40
Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41
Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

In conclusion after you have carefully studied the above prophesies of Daniel, it should be obvious that Mighty Michael “The Ancient of Days” is indeed none other than the Most High God, even the Eternal father of the sprits of all mankind..Our Heavenly Father.

In response to your last sentence:
"In conclusion after you have carefully studied the above prophesies of Daniel, it should be obvious that Mighty Michael “The Ancient of Days” is indeed none other than the Most High God, even the Eternal father of the spirits of all mankind... Our Heavenly Father."

One problem I have with your conclusion unless I am misunderstanding it. Daniel 10:13, focus on the first 6 words, "Michael ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES," The Father is not one of anything, he is the one and only!!!!!
Only Jesus Christ is said to be, Hebrews 1:13, "Who being the brightness of his (the Father's) glory, and express image of his person,"

[Revelations won]

Dear Placebofactor,

I quote Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

You should understand that the Michael spoken of in the above verse is simply one of the chief princes of of the kingdom of Persia. This is not the Michael I was referring to.

If you can show me wherein the Michael spoken of in revelations 12:7 was one of several princes, then lets see your supporting scriptures.

I am puzzeled were you come up with several princes who ruled over the angels in heaven???

Perhaps you would do well to address the other points I have made in this mornings post.

[1213]

.... it should be obvious that Mighty Michael “The Ancient of Days” is indeed none other than the Most High God, even the Eternal father of the sprits of all mankind..Our Heavenly Father.

Thank you. And sorry, I have to disagree with that, because:

But Michael the archangel, when contending with the Devil, he argued about the body of Moses; he dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy, but said, "Let the Lord rebuke you!"
Jud. 1:9

[placebofactor]

Dear Placebofactor,

I quote Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

You should understand that the Michael spoken of in the above verse is simply one of the chief princes of of the kingdom of Persia. This is not the Michael I was referring to.

If you can show me wherein the Michael spoken of in revelations 12:7 was one of several princes, then lets see your supporting scriptures.

I am puzzeled were you come up with several princes who ruled over the angels in heaven???

Perhaps you would do well to address the other points I have made in this mornings post.

In 45 years of Bible study, hundreds of comments and commentaries, a thousand conversations and it's the first time anyone has said, there are two Michaels. Hmmmm, prove it.

[Revelations won]

Dear placebofactor,

Thank you for your response.

“Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 20, 2025 5:14 pm
Dear Placebofactor,

I quote Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

You should understand that the Michael spoken of in the above verse is simply one of the chief princes of of the kingdom of Persia. This is not the Michael I was referring to.

If you can show me wherein the Michael spoken of in revelations 12:7 was one of several princes, then lets see your supporting scriptures.

I am puzzeled were you come up with several princes who ruled over the angels in heaven???

Perhaps you would do well to address the other points I have made in this mornings post.”

Placebofactor responded as follows:

"In 45 years of Bible study, hundreds of comments and commentaries, a thousand conversations and it's the first time anyone has said, there are two Michaels. Hmmmm, prove it.”

May I kindly remind you that I first asked you the following:
“If you can show me wherein the Michael spoken of in revelations 12:7 was one of several princes, then lets see your supporting scriptures.

To date you have utterly failed to respond to this question. Can you prove that the Michael spoken of in Revelation 12:7 was one of the chief princes? If so who are the other chief princes???

May I remind you that the archangel Michael is always spoken of in the singular.

May I also remind you that all the angels in heaven were clearly stated to be” his angels”.

May I also remind you that: In Daniel 10:13 that Michael never declares the Michael spoken of in this verse to be an angel. He only describes this Michael as “one of the chief princes” .

Also may I ask wherein do you find in the scriptures that the angels of God have any authority To Give the “Son of Man” (Christ) an everlasting kingdom with all power, dominion in heaven and earth?

Also can you shew wherein any angel of God has the power to Give Christ the full power to judge all mankind?

For what man knows the things of a man save the spirit of man which is in him?

Even so the things of God knoweth no man, save the spirit of God. If one has not that spirit of revelation from the Holy Ghost who’s mission is to teach us all things then one or thousands can revel in never ending debates and opinions using their own man made conclusions and never solve the issue or come to correct and clear understanding.

You most likely have noticed that in all the commentaries, comments and conversations that there is missing in their verified conclusions any mention of their answer given by revelation from the Holy Ghost.
I find it very interesting that many want to learn truth of heavenly things and in the same breath utterly refuse to seek the source of all truth which can only be received by personal revelation from the Holy Ghost whose very mission it is to “teach us all things”.

[Revelations won]

Dear 1213,

I quote from your post # 17:

“by 1213 » Mon Apr 21, 2025 1:58 am
Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 20, 2025 10:59 am
.... it should be obvious that Mighty Michael “The Ancient of Days” is indeed none other than the Most High God, even the Eternal father of the sprits of all mankind..Our Heavenly Father.

You responded:

Thank you. And sorry, I have to disagree with that, because:

But Michael the archangel, when contending with the Devil, he argued about the body of Moses; he dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy, but said, "Let the Lord rebuke you!"
Jude. 1:9"

My response:

Why was it not necessary for Michael to rebuke the Devil? Did not he delegate to Jehovah by whom he assigned to Create or organize the world? Is it not also appropriate that he likewise should delegate this responsibility to him also?

I think it very important that one should very careful not to assume too much from this scripture referred to in Jude 1:9 regarding this conversation between Michael and the devil since Jude 1:9 is referring to another scripture which is obviously lost or removed from our current bible. If you disagree with this, then please clearly show he full scripture and verse Jude is quoting from…..