JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[Capbook]

And the one who said, "we fight in the name of our heroes, our children, and justice of the people?" own them as one person?
Just like the Father owns the Holy Spirit as Witness reckoned as one person?

Well, it is the Bible that separately or distinctly mentioned them.

Neither the Bible says that Jehovah (His spirit) and Jesus are a single person. That is an imaginary representation of all these three.

Even if we know that in the life of a Christian the Father of Jesus has an exclusive position and acts through His Spirit upon believers who benefit from the sacrifice, teachings and lordship of His Son, that does not mean at all that all three are a single personal entity. This "mono-triplet" is not real: God is the Father, Jesus is the Son of God and the holy spirit is the spirit of Jehovah.

My point is about the Father and the Holy Spirit. Do Witness count them as one or not?

Yes. The spirit of Jehovah is a part of Him that He can extend far away to act by itself and comply with His purpose, but it's not a person but His spirit.

The Holy Spirit was mentioned or introduced to the believers by Jesus, would you mention your spirit, breath, or force to your friend separately also?

The three are one in the state of being God, if you have some resource, please find Greek word "theotes" and its meaning.
If you have a word for word Bible translations, with Strong Concordance and dictionaries of Bible words in Hebrew and in Greek,
you will find it, but on paraphrase or thought for thought translations most Bible words in Hebrew and Greek not exist.

Dictionaries adapt their definitions as language evolves.

For instance, in the past, the English term "worship" solely indicated the respect shown to a person or thing deserving honor, primarily associated with the reverence afforded to monarchs/kings. However, as the term evolved to denote the kind of worship reserved exclusively for God, its earlier connotation fell out of use, leading to its omission in the updated modern definition; maybe in the future it will change again.

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to explore what the Bible teaches rather than relying on human definitions that can be ambiguous, incomplete, relative, biased and even temporary?

I believe you don't know what Bible lexicons are, they define Bible words at the time of its usage.
It give us understanding of the root meaning of the ancient language not of its present usage, to know what the authors' words message on their time.

Bible lexicons provide definitions and meaning of Biblical words found in the original New Testament Greek and Old Testament Hebrew languages of the Holy Bible. This study resource helps in understanding the origins and root meaning of the ancient language. https://library.up.ac.za/c.php?g=898969 ... 20language.

[Bible_Student]

I believe you don't know what Bible lexicons are..

Well, I believe you don't know what I know.

[Capbook]

I believe you don't know what Bible lexicons are..

Well, I believe you don't know what I know.

Well, you are entitled to your own opinion, but opinion does not hold water.
I noticed no proof presented, not even definition of Bible Lexicons.
I do present mine with link.

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

Marke: Poor students of the Bible and those less acquainted with God have adopted the error of thinking that Jesus was just another man and not one with God from before the foundation of the earth. Jesus is God and He did lay aside His deity in many ways when He came to earth in a body prepared for Him by God.

Jesus is not God just because you say so. And you lack an understanding of what JWs believe. We never said that Jesus was "just another man." We absolutely do believe that he was with God before everything was created. Please don't make statements that you do not know are true.

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

Marke: Jesus said in Matthew 19 that there is only one good being and that is God. Why do humans think Jesus is not or was not good? If He was telling the truth and He is not God then He is not good.

He felt that he was not good in comparison with God. That was his assessment.

[onewithhim]

And the one who said, "we fight in the name of our heroes, our children, and justice of the people?" own them as one person?
Just like the Father owns the Holy Spirit as Witness reckoned as one person?

Well, it is the Bible that separately or distinctly mentioned them.

Neither the Bible says that Jehovah (His spirit) and Jesus are a single person. That is an imaginary representation of all these three.

Even if we know that in the life of a Christian the Father of Jesus has an exclusive position and acts through His Spirit upon believers who benefit from the sacrifice, teachings and lordship of His Son, that does not mean at all that all three are a single personal entity. This "mono-triplet" is not real: God is the Father, Jesus is the Son of God and the holy spirit is the spirit of Jehovah.

My point is about the Father and the Holy Spirit. Do Witness count them as one or not?

Yes. The spirit of Jehovah is a part of Him that He can extend far away to act by itself and comply with His purpose, but it's not a person but His spirit.

The Holy Spirit was mentioned or introduced to the believers by Jesus, would you mention your spirit, breath, or force to your friend separately also?

The three are one in the state of being God, if you have some resource, please find Greek word "theotes" and its meaning.
If you have a word for word Bible translations, with Strong Concordance and dictionaries of Bible words in Hebrew and in Greek,
you will find it, but on paraphrase or thought for thought translations most Bible words in Hebrew and Greek not exist.

Dictionaries adapt their definitions as language evolves.

For instance, in the past, the English term "worship" solely indicated the respect shown to a person or thing deserving honor, primarily associated with the reverence afforded to monarchs/kings. However, as the term evolved to denote the kind of worship reserved exclusively for God, its earlier connotation fell out of use, leading to its omission in the updated modern definition; maybe in the future it will change again.

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to explore what the Bible teaches rather than relying on human definitions that can be ambiguous, incomplete, relative, biased and even temporary?

I believe you don't know what Bible lexicons are, they define Bible words at the time of its usage.
It give us understanding of the root meaning of the ancient language not of its present usage, to know what the authors' words message on their time.

Bible lexicons provide definitions and meaning of Biblical words found in the original New Testament Greek and Old Testament Hebrew languages of the Holy Bible. This study resource helps in understanding the origins and root meaning of the ancient language. https://library.up.ac.za/c.php?g=898969 ... 20language.

Apparently your lexicons don't go back far enough. It is true that the 1st century Greeks understood "god" to mean anyone in a powerful position. If your lexicons don't say this, they are not presenting what the earliest Christians believed.

[onewithhim]

I believe you don't know what Bible lexicons are..

Well, I believe you don't know what I know.

Well, you are entitled to your own opinion, but opinion does not hold water.
I noticed no proof presented, not even definition of Bible Lexicons.
I do present mine with link.

And you won't reason on your own. You just give a link to someone else's opinions.

[marke]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

Marke: Poor students of the Bible and those less acquainted with God have adopted the error of thinking that Jesus was just another man and not one with God from before the foundation of the earth. Jesus is God and He did lay aside His deity in many ways when He came to earth in a body prepared for Him by God.

Jesus is not God just because you say so. And you lack an understanding of what JWs believe. We never said that Jesus was "just another man." We absolutely do believe that he was with God before everything was created. Please don't make statements that you do not know are true.

Marke: Jesus proved He was God by raising the dead and performing many other miracles.

John 3:2
The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

[Capbook]

I believe you don't know what Bible lexicons are..

Well, I believe you don't know what I know.

Well, you are entitled to your own opinion, but opinion does not hold water.
I noticed no proof presented, not even definition of Bible Lexicons.
I do present mine with link.

And you won't reason on your own. You just give a link to someone else's opinions.

I present proof from neutral ground, not of the same faith with me.
I am not confine to what might be, the GB in your part, and NWT, your church own paraphrase translation where Bible words of Hebrew and Greek did not exist, without Strong Concordance and Bible lexicons, which would lead to own or leadership interpretation, a greater possibility of eisegesis.

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

Marke: Poor students of the Bible and those less acquainted with God have adopted the error of thinking that Jesus was just another man and not one with God from before the foundation of the earth. Jesus is God and He did lay aside His deity in many ways when He came to earth in a body prepared for Him by God.

Jesus is not God just because you say so. And you lack an understanding of what JWs believe. We never said that Jesus was "just another man." We absolutely do believe that he was with God before everything was created. Please don't make statements that you do not know are true.

Marke: Jesus proved He was God by raising the dead and performing many other miracles.

John 3:2
The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Don't insult Jesus. He said time and again that the Father was doing works THROUGH him. He got the power that he had FROM the Father. He would never want anyone to belittle his Father like you have.

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19, KJV)

"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50, KJV)

"...And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people that stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 11:41b, 42, KJV)

Jesus always gave credit to his Father. He was happily subordinate to his Father. Your quote from John 3:2 does not say or even imply that Jesus is God. It says that God was with him."