Apologetics is Fun!

[POI]

Apologetics: reasoned arguments or writings in justification of something, typically a theory or religious doctrine.

For Debate: Please prove Jesus was not the devil in disguise. I say Jesus was actually the devil. I'll state my case below...

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This topic is created to demonstrate how any believer, in virtually any applied supernaturalness, can assert many things which cannot be falsified.

Below is my case. But being that apologetics is fun, I too have the right to pivot and move the goalposts, as needed, to retain my position:

P1: The devil exists
P2: The devil has superhuman abilities
P3: The devil's aim is to deceive humans. What better way to do this than to get millions/billions of humans to worship a false God, which breaks the 1st Commandment.
P4: God is not currently suppressing the devil

Okay, this should be enough to get us started. So please prove that Jesus was not the devil all along...

[POI]

You would first have to say, how is he tricking me?

Already explained in the premises you already acknowledged.

I don't think you have said anything that shows Jesus tricked someone. If you disagree, please explain how he tricked and in what.

Unless you disagree with any of the given premises in the OP, and explain why, then I sure have explained my position.

[1213]

...
P3: The devil's aim is to deceive humans....

....So please prove that Jesus was not the devil all along...

As you say, devil deceives. Jesus does not, therefore he is not the devil.

[POI]

...
P3: The devil's aim is to deceive humans....

....So please prove that Jesus was not the devil all along...

As you say, devil deceives. Jesus does not, therefore he is not the devil.

If you agree the devil deceives, then you are deceived.

[1213]

If you agree the devil deceives, then you are deceived.

I think that is a ridiculous claim. If I would be deceived, I would not be saying devil deceives.

But, please explain how I have been deceived?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #64]

If you agree the devil deceives, then you are deceived.

I think that is a ridiculous claim.

I agree. It's like saying, "If John Smith is a car thief, then John Smith has stolen your car."

[POI]

please explain how I have been deceived?

The devil impersonated a Messiah. You worship that fake Messiah.

[POI]

It's like saying, "If John Smith is a car thief, then John Smith has stolen your car."

Negative.

P1: John Smith exists
P2: John Smith is a car thief
P3: John Smith's objective is to steal as many cars as he can
P4: John Smith can only take so many cars, as John does not possess supernatural abilities
P5: Billions of cars exist
P6: The odds of John Smith stealing your car is low, due to the odds of reaching your car for theft
P7: Since John Smith does not possess supernatural abilities, John Smith may get caught and go to jail, or fail in an attempt to steal some cars
etc etc etc etc

Versus:

P1: The devil exists
P2: The devil has superhuman abilities
P3: The devil's aim is to deceive humans. What better way to do this than to get millions/billions of humans to worship a false God, which breaks the 1st Commandment.
P4: God is not currently suppressing the devil

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John Smith does not possess supernatural powers, and also cannot be in all places at once and steal all cars. Apparently, the devil has the ability to deceive all humans. Otherwise, the vast majority could never possibly be deceived.

Please re-read the entire OP. The objective is to prove me wrong. Can you? Can you prove that the devil did not impersonate a messiah, to get many to worship the wrong God, thereby breaking the 1st Commandment? If not, then you must admit that you merely have faith that Jesus is not the devil in disguise.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to POI in post #67]

P1: John Smith exists
P2: John Smith is a car thief
P3: John Smith's objective is to steal as many cars as he can
P4: John Smith can only take so many cars, as John does not possess supernatural abilities
P5: Billions of cars exist
P6: The odds of John Smith stealing your car is low, due to the odds of reaching your car for theft
P7: Since John Smith does not possess supernatural abilities, John Smith may get caught and go to jail, or fail in an attempt to steal some cars
etc etc etc etc

P1: John Smith exists.
P2: John Smith is a car thief.
P3: John Smith lives in your neighborhood and, thus, has ready access to your car (he also doesn't have to steal----or be able to steal----every car in order to be a car thief.
P4: You just looked out your window into the driveway and saw that your car is still there.

Please re-read the entire OP. The objective is to prove me wrong. Can you? Can you prove that the devil did not impersonate a messiah, to get many to worship the wrong God, thereby breaking the 1st Commandment? If not, then you must admit that you merely have faith that Jesus is not the devil in disguise.

It's easy for me to believe that Jesus is not the devil, especially since I do not believe that the devil exists. While I'm re-reading the OP, you can re-read some of my posts on the subject of the devil:
viewtopic.php?p=1082623&hilit=Satan#p1082623


First, there's supposed to be a being known as "Satan" or the "devil". He's supposed to be the most highly intelligent being ever created, yet he supposedly rebelled against a creator whom he knew to be omnipotent.......and actually expected to win. His "rebellion" is blamed on pride, but for such a highly intelligent being to expect victory over his own omnipotent creator wouldn't be just prideful; it would be delusional. Such a being would have to be so mentally unhinged as to be unfit to stand any trial.

.....

To me those sound like descriptions of a being who's not very smart, and I believe that to be highly compelling evidence that the being in question doesn't exist at all.
viewtopic.php?p=1064106&hilit=Satan#p1064106

[POI]

P3: John Smith lives in your neighborhood and, thus, has ready access to your car (he also doesn't have to steal----or be able to steal----every car in order to be a car thief.
P4: You just looked out your window into the driveway and saw that your car is still there.

But this differs from "the devil". Christians believe the devil does wish to deceive all humans. Christians also believe the devil has supernatural abilities. Christians would then logically have to also believe that the devil is given free will, in order to have the ability to deceive all humans.

I do not believe that the devil exists.

Neither do I. This exercise is intended for believers in the devil.

[1213]

please explain how I have been deceived?

The devil impersonated a Messiah.

Why do you think so?