Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Difflugia
Prodigy
Posts: 3696
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
Location: Michigan
Has thanked: 4005 times
Been thanked: 2402 times

Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #1

Post by Difflugia »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:23 pm
Difflugia wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:07 pm
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 4:18 pmBut a intelligent engineer can preset the dials to get the results that he wants.
An "intelligent designer" in the way Christian apologists define one can do anything at all. It's taking "I don't know" and assigning it to a god. Like I said, if you don't understand why that's insufficient, I'll start a new topic.
Do what you gotta do.
A number of posters, particularly in the Science and Religion forum, repeatedly offer what they think are arguments against scientific principles and present them as evidence for their particular conception of a god. This is informally known as "the god of the gaps."

Is the god of the gaps argument logically sound? If not, what changes must be made to such an argument to rescue it?
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4837
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1887 times
Been thanked: 1336 times

Re: Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #51

Post by POI »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm Again, your determination here. needs to be scientifically studied.
No study required. It would take me a text wall to explain what you could instead grasp in 4 minutes, via visual aid, etc... Without knowing these variables, which were discovered, you will continue with the strawman.
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm Without power from the Heavens above, existence is futile.
Again, with the apples vs oranges. Nothing I'm arguing here has anything to do with 'origins'. Without the knowledge I'm trying to give you, it is impossible to state you know what evolutionary biology proposes.
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm ?
Evolutionary biology has no denominations. You get the same information given to you, regardless of what school you attend. On the other hand, I could go to a Catholic school and get differing 'facts' than if I were to instead go to a non-Catholic school. Hence, your attempt at comparing me to you are unfounded.
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm A reptile evolving into a bird. Have you observed this?
More doubling down... More strawman. More beliefs based upon false premises. More refusal to receive new information, in favor of protecting a comfortable view.
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm Point?
The moderator does not take sides. They have to agree with the report, based upon the rules. A million reports could be generated, and if they do not align with breaking the rules, they will be ignored.
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm In other words.. "Shut up, fall in line, and continue to be mistreated".
No. In other words, remain cordial and you will not have problems.
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm I did turn the other cheek...but this has been occuring numerous times.
What would Jesus do in this case?
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm Reading comprehension. No, that's not what I was insinuating. Never mind my intended point, since you botched it that bad.
You see now, was that a cordial statement? Simmer down.

1) I asked a question. I did not assert this was your position, which is why it has a question mark.
2) So, you do not think my current position is one of denial to the truth of knowing there actually is a "grand creator"? Not only have you insinuated as such in the past, but the Bible also blatantly expresses this -- (Romans 1:20)
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm Bruh, repeat after me.. DOGS...PRODUCE...DOGS. Now, let's say it together... DOGS...PRODUCE...DOGS. Do you copy?
Yes, and every dog I ever own, whom has puppies, will produce new dogs as their offspring. Now please educate yourself on what you admit you do not know. I've given you a quick reference, but you refuse it. So if you want to instead learn on your own, you can go into the deep depths of the Dover trail, in what was spoken about, regarding common ancestry. Once you understand the significance of Chromosome #2, why telomeres and centromeres are not where they belong, and how the GNOME is related, you will then have a much better grasp on evolutionary biological discovery.
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm :lol: :lol:
What are you laughing about exactly? If I was to believe in "key goblins", and my keys turn up missing, and the BEST EXPLANATION is 'key goblins', I guess I've demonstrated 'key goblins'? I'll answer for you. No. I first have to present a 'key goblin' before I can add it in as a viable option.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

benchwarmer
Prodigy
Posts: 2510
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:40 am
Has thanked: 2336 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #52

Post by benchwarmer »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:10 pm
DOGS...PRODUCE...DOGS.

Now, let's say it together...

DOGS...PRODUCE...DOGS.

Do you copy?
This is getting comical. Readers, note that after our interlocutor has been informed the science says exactly this, they continue to expound on the fact that dogs produce dogs as if that is meaningful to an argument against the TOE.

It's one thing to not agree or not understand. It's another to keep shouting something that no one is disagreeing with.

Maybe we should start shouting "The Bible mentions Jesus! Jesus is IN the Bible!!!!" It will likely have the same impact.

User avatar
SiNcE_1985
Under Probation
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2024 5:32 pm
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #53

Post by SiNcE_1985 »

benchwarmer wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:52 pm
Maybe we should start shouting "The Bible mentions Jesus! Jesus is IN the Bible!!!!" It will likely have the same impact.
Yeah, and after you do that, we'll start saying "You just don't understand Christianity!!" to skeptics who expresses their skepticism towards Christianity.

Just like you guys shout "You just don't understand evolution" every time a skeptic in evolution expresses such.
I got 99 problems, dude.

Don't become the hundredth one.

User avatar
SiNcE_1985
Under Probation
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2024 5:32 pm
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #54

Post by SiNcE_1985 »

POI wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:47 pm No study required. It would take me a text wall to explain what you could instead grasp in 4 minutes, via visual aid, etc... Without knowing these variables, which were discovered, you will continue with the strawman.
Well again, if you can't explain it in simplistic terms, then you don't understand the subject well enough.
Again, with the apples vs oranges. Nothing I'm arguing here has anything to do with 'origins'. Without the knowledge I'm trying to give you, it is impossible to state you know what evolutionary biology proposes.
Does the evolutionary biology process propose that whales were once land dwelling animals?

No filibustering.

Yes, or no? Simple question.
Evolutionary biology has no denominations. You get the same information given to you, regardless of what school you attend. On the other hand, I could go to a Catholic school and get differing 'facts' than if I were to instead go to a non-Catholic school. Hence, your attempt at comparing me to you are unfounded.
Yeah but that means nothing if the entire thing is a lie. So basically, you get the same lie regardless of what school you attend.

At least with Christian denominations, you have a better chance of at least one of them being true :lol:

More doubling down... More strawman. More beliefs based upon false premises. More refusal to receive new information, in favor of protecting a comfortable view.
Ok, I don't understand evolution. I admit it. Cool? Now, can I be left alone on this topic?
The moderator does not take sides. They have to agree with the report, based upon the rules. A million reports could be generated, and if they do not align with breaking the rules, they will be ignored.
Sure, go with that. Although at least one has earned my respect.
No. In other words, remain cordial and you will not have problems.
Alright, coach.
What would Jesus do in this case?
He brings the sword. (Matt 10:34-36)

You see now, was that a cordial statement? Simmer down.
Well, if saying someone botched my point is an example of an uncordial statement, then uh..
1) I asked a question. I did not assert this was your position, which is why it has a question mark.
The mere tone of the question was flippant and sarcastic.
2) So, you do not think my current position is one of denial to the truth of knowing there actually is a "grand creator"? Not only have you insinuated as such in the past, but the Bible also blatantly expresses this -- (Romans 1:20)
Yes, that is exactly what I think although I don't recall your response properly fitting my statement.

But, it is no big deal. Nothing to write home about or call the Feds on.
Yes, and every dog I ever own, whom has puppies, will produce new dogs as their offspring. Now please educate yourself on what you admit you do not know. I've given you a quick reference, but you refuse it. So if you want to instead learn on your own, you can go into the deep depths of the Dover trail, in what was spoken about, regarding common ancestry. Once you understand the significance of Chromosome #2, why telomeres and centromeres are not where they belong, and how the GNOME is related, you will then have a much better grasp on evolutionary biological discovery.
I already admitted I don't understand evolution..so this is now a dead issue.
What are you laughing about exactly? If I was to believe in "key goblins", and my keys turn up missing, and the BEST EXPLANATION is 'key goblins', I guess I've demonstrated 'key goblins'? I'll answer for you. No. I first have to present a 'key goblin' before I can add it in as a viable option.
No, you do not need to go beyond what is necessary to produce the effect.
I got 99 problems, dude.

Don't become the hundredth one.

benchwarmer
Prodigy
Posts: 2510
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:40 am
Has thanked: 2336 times
Been thanked: 959 times

Re: Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #55

Post by benchwarmer »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 3:16 pm
benchwarmer wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:52 pm
Maybe we should start shouting "The Bible mentions Jesus! Jesus is IN the Bible!!!!" It will likely have the same impact.
Yeah, and after you do that, we'll start saying "You just don't understand Christianity!!" to skeptics who expresses their skepticism towards Christianity.

Just like you guys shout "You just don't understand evolution" every time a skeptic in evolution expresses such.
I would assume Christians would instead say "Well no kidding. We all know that already. What's your point?"

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4837
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1887 times
Been thanked: 1336 times

Re: Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #56

Post by POI »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 6:08 pm I already admitted I don't understand evolution..so this is now a dead issue.
Then please do not mention evolution anymore. And when you do, I will remind you :approve:
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

User avatar
SiNcE_1985
Under Probation
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2024 5:32 pm
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #57

Post by SiNcE_1985 »

POI wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:00 pm
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 6:08 pm I already admitted I don't understand evolution..so this is now a dead issue.
Then please do not mention evolution anymore. And when you do, I will remind you :approve:
That's actually a good deal.

I still have abiogenesis to slap around.
I got 99 problems, dude.

Don't become the hundredth one.

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4837
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1887 times
Been thanked: 1336 times

Re: Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #58

Post by POI »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 8:07 pm
POI wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:00 pm
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 6:08 pm I already admitted I don't understand evolution..so this is now a dead issue.
Then please do not mention evolution anymore. And when you do, I will remind you :approve:
That's actually a good deal.

I still have abiogenesis to slap around.
I hope you know a whole lot more about the actual findings regarding abiogenesis. Otherwise, it's just more false premise strawman tactics.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

User avatar
Clownboat
Savant
Posts: 9890
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
Has thanked: 1176 times
Been thanked: 1563 times

Re: Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #59

Post by Clownboat »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 12:24 pm
POI wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 10:39 am
SiNcE_1985 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 6:03 pm I guess I must be lying on my motivations for being a Christian, apparently.
You expressed, in another thread, (paraphrased) - that if evolutionary biology is true, you would likely have to denounce Christianity. Please correct me if this is a misplaced statement? But I'm fairly certain this is your position here...

If the above statement is true
It ain't true, which means that since you based whatever you said afterwards on a false premise, that statement is also false.

My position is...

I don't believe for one nanosecond that evolution is true, with or without God's divine hand in it.

However, even if it is true, it ain't happening without God's divine hand orchestrating the affairs.

No purely naturalistic explanation for the origins of life and/or species is viable.

That my position that I will live & die by.
What a great demonstration of how religions can close off the mind.

Person A: Here is my position... and I will live and die by it.
Person B: Would you like to learn.....
Person A: LIVE AND DIE I SAID!

Just declarer yourself correct and then close yourself off. Yay religions!
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

User avatar
SiNcE_1985
Under Probation
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2024 5:32 pm
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Is the god of the gaps a sound argument?

Post #60

Post by SiNcE_1985 »

Clownboat wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 10:42 am
What a great demonstration of how religions can close off the mind.
Yeah, because religious skeptics are some of the most open minded people out there.

In fact, I've never known anyone who can surpass the open mindedness of those in the New Atheists Movement.

Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins, some of the most open minded guys you'll ever meet.
Person A: Here is my position... and I will live and die by it.
Person B: Would you like to learn.....
Person A: LIVE AND DIE I SAID!
That's how strong I am in my convictions, as I'm sure you are in yours.
Just declarer yourself correct and then close yourself off. Yay religions!
No God, no moral accountability...yay atheism!!
I got 99 problems, dude.

Don't become the hundredth one.

Post Reply