Christianity cherry-picked from the 613 Mosaic laws

[oldbadger]

Christianity cherry-picked from the 613 Mosaic laws

It most certainly did!
Would anybody like to challenge that ?

[oldbadger]

Do you Christians make sure to always avoid wearing wool and linen together at the same time,

I'm not a Christian but even I know that the peasant classes could only afford wooden clothing. Linen clothing was expensive.
If you think that the Israelite clothing laws were strange you should see a picture of a UK coronation assembly, or read about clothing and status within so many cultures.

or always avoid eating any shellfish,

Don't eat shellfish unless very carefully cooked or kept under ultraviolet light for 72 hours. Back then the risks of shellfish poison paralysis were massive.
I'm surprised that you don't know this stuff.
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or always make sure your son(s) are circumcised,
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Health safety and national security.

.or always avoid working on the Sabbath,
,

Tell us which country you live in a we might be able to show you some 'sabbath type' rules.

or completely avoid eating certain foods during Passover,

That was part of a ceremony in order to remember the exodus.....only unleavened bread was taken with them.
You probably have dietary rules within your culture.

or make sure you never wear clothes made for the opposite sex

Your culture is a bit stuck about all that. If you're a man do you go shopping in a nice dress?

, or genuinely think/feel that forms of lifetime chattel slavery are perfectly fine?

No we don't, but back then slavery was common.......or did you think that pagans like the Romans didn't do all that?

[POI]

These questions are more-go geared for the Christian believer. But I doubt many, if any, will answer..?

I'm not a Christian but even I know that the peasant classes could only afford wooden clothing. Linen clothing was expensive.

1) Does the OT state why one is not to mix these two fabrics?
2) Does this rule still apply today? If not, why not?

Don't eat shellfish unless very carefully cooked or kept under ultraviolet light for 72 hours. Back then the risks of shellfish poison paralysis were massive.

Does the OT state why one is not to eat shellfish?

Health safety and national security.

1) Does the OT state why one is to always circumcise?
2) Does this rule still apply today? If not, why not?

Tell us which country you live in a we might be able to show you some 'sabbath type' rules.

1) Why is the "Bible god" tied to human invented time, geography, and human bloodlines? In other words, why does "god" revolve around us, when it is actually the other way around?
2) Which human invented day of the week is the Sabbath?
3) Does this rule still apply today? If not, why not?

That was part of a ceremony in order to remember the exodus.....only unleavened bread was taken with them.
You probably have dietary rules within your culture.

1) Does the OT state why one is not to eat certain foods during Passover?
2) Does this rule still apply today? If not, why not?

Your culture is a bit stuck about all that. If you're a man do you go shopping in a nice dress?

1) Does the OT state why one is not to wear each other's clothes?
2) Are there any exceptions to the rule?
3) Does this rule still apply today? If not, why not?

No we don't, but back then slavery was common

1) Does this mean one's "god given" moral intuitions change over time?
2) Does the Bible god conform to our customs, or the other way around?

[POI]

Bible tells for example:

And if the slave truly says, I love my master, my wife and my children; I do not desire to go out free,
Ex. 21:5

Context 1213, context: (i.e.):

Ex. 21:2-4 => "2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free."

Ex 21:5 pertains to Israelite male specific slaves who have been duped into staying. When you read the above, you can see this. All other slaves are kept for life; whether the slave wants to or not. Meaning, the decision is not made by the enslaved, but instead by the master. I reckon the slave master is not going to release their free/cheap lifetime labor force, would they? Also see the following(i.e.):

Lev. 25:44-46 => "44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

[oldbadger]

[quote=POI post_id=1156426

1) Does the OT state why one is not to mix these two fabrics?
2) Does this rule still apply today? If not, why not?

Oh! So now you criticise those laws because they don't explain the 'why'?
Have you ever had a garment made of wool and flax?
We have synthetics today, you know.
Now, have you seen pictures of assemblies like coronations? People dress by status....for example some very highly raised gentlemen wear a garter!!
But you've never asked 'why'?

Does the OT state why one is not to eat shellfish?

Oh please! Is there a notice by speed limits to explain 'why'?

1) Does the OT state why one is to always circumcise?
2) Does this rule still apply today? If not, why not?

Oh dear.......you got answered, every question, and so now you're just waffling.
Christians don't have to circumcise but it is a very healthy/clean operation, I am told.

1) Why is the "Bible god" tied to human invented time, geography, and human bloodlines? In other words, why does "god" revolve around us, when it is actually the other way around?
2) Which human invented day of the week is the Sabbath?
3) Does this rule still apply today? If not, why not?

You demand so many answers yet you can't tell me your country?
I needed to know your country or I could not have asked. I think you know that your answer would have helped me, so...nothing.

1) Does the OT state why one is not to wear each other's clothes?

Yes.........check it out in the old testament. All explained.

1) Does this mean one's "god given" moral intuitions change over time?
2) Does the Bible god conform to our customs, or the other way around?

Moral intuitions? Do you use language like that?
Our social rules have changed severely in my lifetime, let alone since 4000 years ago.

You can't answer my answers, you just splash more questions at me. Do you really need me to teach you so many answers?

[POI]

Before I respond, the OP topic looks to have already been vetted out. Christians look to have no pushback.

Meaning, not only do Christians cherry-pick "version 1", or the OT, but they also cherry-pick the later cherry-picked update, or "version 2", which is the NT.

I'm now forging forward a bit, since no Christian can really defend against the claim that they are Bonafide cherry-pickers.

I'm now addressing the part where you and I might disagree. You see, you seem to insinuate the OT was a 'good' book. My perspective differs. I think it's a hodgepodge of some common sense, superstition, getting some stuff logically wrong, etc....

Oh! So now you criticise those laws because they don't explain the 'why'?

No. Many rules/laws made both then and now, do not explain the 'why'. But guess what... We can ask the human law makers of the "why" here in our respective countries. Can we ask the law makers of the rules/laws made of the OT, if we should have follow-up questions, or not agree? Nope. And if we did have access to do so, do you actually think all of their rationale(s) would be what you are giving us? I doubt it. Remember, this was a time where "witches" were still believed to be an actual thing. And some things were likely thought to be caused by 'evil'.

You demand so many answers yet you can't tell me your country?

I live in the U.S., but my prior Q(s) already tell you why your question here is irrelevant. Is this god really this tribalistic? Sounds like something a mere superstitious ancient human would make up. And indeed, it likely was nothing more than this....

Moral intuitions? Do you use language like that?
Our social rules have changed severely in my lifetime, let alone since 4000 years ago.

You can't answer my answers, you just splash more questions at me. Do you really need me to teach you so many answers?

If you look at the top of my last response to you, you will see these questions are more-so geared towards the believer. The ultimate question becomes... Do "morals" change? If they do, then "Houstin, maybe we have a problem." Meaning, was chattel slavery actually ever okay with the "Bible god"? If not, then why not just tell folks it's "wrong"? Case/point, telling folks not to lie never stopped them from always doing so anyways.

[oldbadger]

Before I respond, the OP topic looks to have already been vetted out. Christians look to have no pushback.

I think so as well.

Meaning, not only do Christians cherry-pick "version 1", or the OT, but they also cherry-pick the later cherry-picked update, or "version 2", which is the NT.

I'm now forging forward a bit, since no Christian can really defend against the claim that they are Bonafide cherry-pickers.

Yes. A theist can show that the NT supports a wide range of opposing policies and actions by selecting the right words or actions of Jesus or Paul.
And the self righteous theist can ignore scores and scores of old testament laws whilst grasping to more juicy ones ....some do love to quote certain 'abominations'; there are about 20 of these but abominations such as deceiving customers over weights and measures never seem to get featured.

I'm now addressing the part where you and I might disagree. You see, you seem to insinuate the OT was a 'good' book. My perspective differs. I think it's a hodgepodge of some common sense, superstition, getting some stuff logically wrong, etc....

The OT is a compilation of scores of books. If you want criticise a book then you would need to name it.
Whilst so many accounts and reports must be fascinating, and the psalms are quite beautiful pieces of literature, I don't read the OT but I do read Leviticus and Deuteronomy because these are the including the Mosaic law. I long ago dismissed any ideas of a God sending these down to mankind and so I can marvel at how such a common sense piece of legislation could have been figured out by people.
Amazing laws, such as if you build a roof above your home then it must have an embrasure all around it to stop the chances of people falling off and hurting themselves...my local council has such a byelaw. Luv it.

No. Many rules/laws made both then and now, do not explain the 'why'. But guess what... We can ask the human law makers of the "why" here in our respective countries. Can we ask the law makers of the rules/laws made of the OT, if we should have follow-up questions, or not agree? Nope. And if we did have access to do so, do you actually think all of their rationale(s) would be what you are giving us? I doubt it. Remember, this was a time where "witches" were still believed to be an actual thing. And some things were likely thought to be caused by 'evil'.

The Mosaic laws were figured out 3500 years ago so we have to figure them out for ourselves. Compare these with the laws of Hammurabi written at about the same time and Mosaic law beats those for clarity and common sense easily.
And No.... Every single law was complete sense back then. The Israelites didn't fail because of keeping them but because of discarding them.
All of the sacrificial and ceremonial laws definitely had a controlling influence amongst the people whilst supply the Levite Leaders with a living...they were not allowed to own land.

I live in the U.S., but my prior Q(s) already tell you why your question here is irrelevant. Is this god really this tribalistic? Sounds like something a mere superstitious ancient human would make up. And indeed, it likely was nothing more than this....

Tribalistic? No.....those laws provided for immigration and asylum into and amongst the people...they did! A Republican Pastor got that horribly wrong and looked daft when I quoted relevant laws. And folks who don't like benefits systems for the less able and poor come horribly unstuck because Mosaic law provided for everybody.

If you look at the top of my last response to you, you will see these questions are more-so geared towards the believer. The ultimate question becomes... Do "morals" change? If they do, then "Houstin, maybe we have a problem." Meaning, was chattel slavery actually ever okay with the "Bible god"? If not, then why not just tell folks it's "wrong"? Case/point, telling folks not to lie never stopped them from always doing so anyways.

Where Theism produces pleasant strong communities then I am pleased for them (I take tea with Christians/others twice a week...most pleasant) but where it produces inhumanity and disgrace it is dreadful.
The Mosaic law is the most brilliant piece of legislation to be written by man and I absolutely understand why the book claims that an all powerful and scary God delivered them.......it must have been hoped that this would help them to be kept, but alas ...power can corrupt and it sure did, just as happens today. Generals putting their best mates in the front of the battle because they fancy their mate's wife! Human nature can be sick, eh?

[POI]

The Mosaic laws were figured out 3500 years ago so we have to figure them out for ourselves. Compare these with the laws of Hammurabi written at about the same time and Mosaic law beats those for clarity and common sense easily.

IMHO, this is like comparing doggy doo doo against kitty doo doo. As I stated, it carries some common sense, some superstition, some illogic, etc....

The Mosaic law is the most brilliant piece of legislation to be written by man and I absolutely understand why the book claims that an all powerful and scary God delivered them.......

Ex. 22:18 -> Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. = Brilliant!

it must have been hoped that this would help them to be kept, but alas ...power can corrupt and it sure did, just as happens today. Generals putting their best mates in the front of the battle because they fancy their mate's wife! Human nature can be sick, eh?

Why not just instead instruct readers that lifetime chattel slavery is bad?

[JehovahsWitness]

THE MOSAIC LAW & "NATURAL SELECTION"

None of the Mosaic laws were bad. The laws regarding blood sacrifices, Slavey, dress codes and the death penalty were the superlative example of what a national law code should be, namley well adapted, just, workable and protective. Christianity is based on "natural law" and reflects the greatest or the best of the Mosaic law (which was abolished after the death of Christ).

The greatest of the mosaic laws covered the principles upon which all the other laws INCLUDING laws on blood sacrifices , slavery , dress codes , sexual misconduct such as homosexuel practices and rape as well as laws governing the treatment of women and the implementationof the death penalty... were based.



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THE MOSAIC LAW, CONTROVERSAL MANDATES and ...ABOLITION

[oldbadger]

IMHO, this is like comparing doggy doo doo against kitty doo doo. As I stated, it carries some common sense, some superstition, some illogic, etc....

Hang on......you have not acknowledged reading the Laws of Hammurabi so I doubt that you ever heard of them. Is this correct?
There is not much superstition on the content of Mosaic law...not really.

Ex. 22:18 -> Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. = Brilliant!

That law is filed under social responsibility, and we don't know what the exact definition of sorcerer/witch was. But 'Hey' you found a law to show...out of pages of laws covering service/employment, personal injury, property protection, social responsibility, justice and mercy, the Sabbath and more.

I'll bet you moan about masses of laws in your own country so OT law isn't doing so badly.

Why not just instead instruct readers that lifetime chattel slavery is bad?

Because thousands of years ago it was not! Today in wartime forces don't enslave captors but in WW11 they did! That's only 80 years ago.
Your getting to look as self-righteous as a puritan Christian!!

[TRANSPONDER]

THE MOSAIC LAW & "NATURAL SELECTION"

None of the Mosaic laws were bad. The laws regarding blood sacrifices, Slavey, dress codes and the death penalty were the superlative example of what a national law code should be, namley Well adapts, just, workable and protective. Christianity is based on "natural law" and reflects the greatest or the best of the Mosaic law (which was abolished after the death of Christ).

The greatest of the mosaic laws covered the principles upon which all the other laws INCLUDING laws on blood sacrifices , slavery , dress codes , sexual misconduct such as homosexuel practices and rape as well as
laws governing the treatment of women and the implementationof the death penalty... were based.



RELATED POSTS

Did Christianity "Cherry pick" the Mosaic law?
viewtopic.php?p=1156301#p1156301

To read more please go to other posts related to ...

THE MOSAIC LAW, SABBATH OBSERVANCE and ...ABOLITION

No. 'Natural Law' is evolved instinct (rivalry and co - operation) which we see in animals, too. In fact I just responded tyo another Morality argument on my Other forum. with the f same false arguments yet again, and the repeated refusal of God - apolkogists to listen and learn that morality is an evolved instinct further refined (b like tool - making) into a complicated code of laws.

In fact I still have the video link, which I can post here, too.