Apologetic History Ascertaining Bible ( AHAB )

[The Nice Centurion]

Christians from the very beginning of Christianity established some sort of weird Fantasy Bible Universe for apologetic reasons.

But even though modern History Science consens already refuted most of that false apologetic history, it is still both used by apologetics and accepted by most sceptics.

Foundational pillars of this propagandahistory include:

The Israelites were strict monotheists. - This is false. Even parts of the bible itself document polytheism sometimes.

The Israelites were better people than all other nations.

The Israelites abstained when all neighbouring nations did physical and sexual abuse, kidnapping and bodily mutilation and human sacrifice.

The Hebrew judiciary sysem (SIC) was all the way better than that of other nations.

It was a benefit for peope of other nations to be able to learn about and even worship the True God.
( They had their own true god ? My, weren't they special?)

In the thread " Slavery in the Bible ", all this apologetic pseudo historical lies were practically used to formulate the christian closing statement.

It was questioned to be a good argument in said thread, by Transponder.

It was questioned about ts historical thruthfullness by no one.

.

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves."

Again, a lamentable situation (not caused but tolerated and regulated) by the God of the bible. That foreigners chose to sell their own brothers and sisters to non natives (something outlawed under the Hebrew system) was not God's doing. But since they did, foreign slaves were arguably much better off in Israel, where physical and sexual abuse, kidnapping and bodily mutilation and human sacrifice, were prohibited and where they came under the Hebrew judiciary sysem. There was also the added benefit of their being able to learn about and even worship the True God.

( All this is commonly also used as apologetic by christians when they need help to advocate the biblical genocide.)

Questions for debate:

Am I right that this is pseudo historical hogwash?

And if I am right, why is it commonly still accepted as true even by sceptics?

Are you also aware of more examples of biblical fantasy history? Pray, tell us!

[JehovahsWitness]

Again, a lamentable situation (not caused but tolerated and regulated) by the God of the bible. That foreigners chose to sell their own brothers and sisters to non natives (something outlawed under the Hebrew system) was not God's doing. But since they did, foreign slaves were arguably much better off in Israel, where physical and sexual abuse, kidnapping and bodily mutilation and human sacrifice, were prohibited and where they came under the Hebrew judiciary sysem. There was also the added benefit of their being able to learn about and even worship the True God.

I can see nothing in the above statement that can scientifically or historically, be proven to be untrue.

It is clearly a matter of opinion whether a knowledge of who the Hebrew and Christian scripture calls "The True God" was comparitively beneficial for individuals concerned (thus modifying the statement with the word "arguably") but within the context of a theological discussion, there is nothing inaccurate in the individual statements:

• The existence of human slavery is a lamentable situation - Generally held opinion

• Slavery is not caused ... by the God of the bible - This statement cannot be proven to be untrue

• Slavery is tolerated and regulated by the God of the bible - The God as depicted in scripture clearly does both

• The selling of native to foreigners was illegal under the Hebrew law FACT

• Physical and sexual abuse, kidnapping and bodily mutilation and human sacrifice were prohibited under Hebrew law FACT

• Foreign slaves were arguably much better off under the Hebrew system were such practices were outlawed than alternative systems were such practices were legal - Logically sound opinion

• Learning about and even worshipping the God of the Hebrews was "arguably" beneficial for foreigners. Opinion

Questions for debate:
Am I right that this is pseudo historical hogwash?

No (see above)

[TRANSPONDER]

Indeed, No. Our pal JW uses evasive apologetics. I would not deny that the Biblical rules on slavery were intended to be as fair as they though reasonable, but it does not amount to more recent human morals where they came out against slavery. God could have done that, He did not.

Palpable craftiness is seen in the argument that Hebrews were not to be sold to foreigners. Sure, but foreigners could be bought from other countries by Hebrews as slaves. Lifetime chattel property slaves with no release or rights.

Those who seek to mislead us with their apologetics do not deserve our respect.

[SiNcE_1985]

Christians from the very beginning of Christianity established some sort of weird Fantasy Bible Universe for apologetic reasons.

Really?

I didn't think I knew what weird was until some atheists put forth the idea that inanimate matter came to life and began to talk, think, and have sex.

Talk about fantasy universe.

But even though modern History Science consens already refuted most of that false apologetic history,

I must have missed it.

The Israelites were strict monotheists. - This is false. Even parts of the bible itself document polytheism sometimes.

This is making a fuss about NOTHING.

You throw in "strict" to booster whatever point you are trying to make...although I'm not aware of anyone who uses that word to describe the Israelites in their monotheism.

( All this is commonly also used as apologetic by christians when they need help to advocate the biblical genocide.)

Questions for debate:

Am I right that this is pseudo historical hogwash?

And if I am right, why is it commonly still accepted as true even by sceptics?

Are you also aware of more examples of biblical fantasy history? Pray, tell us!

This is all sensationalism.

Just finding ways to criticized Christianity.

[TRANSPONDER]

Christians from the very beginning of Christianity established some sort of weird Fantasy Bible Universe for apologetic reasons.

Really?

I didn't think I knew what weird was until some atheists put forth the idea that inanimate matter came to life and began to talk, think, and have sex.

Talk about fantasy universe.

But even though modern History Science consens already refuted most of that false apologetic history,

I must have missed it.

The Israelites were strict monotheists. - This is false. Even parts of the bible itself document polytheism sometimes.

This is making a fuss about NOTHING.

You throw in "strict" to booster whatever point you are trying to make...although I'm not aware of anyone who uses that word to describe the Israelites in their monotheism.

( All this is commonly also used as apologetic by christians when they need help to advocate the biblical genocide.)

Questions for debate:

Am I right that this is pseudo historical hogwash?

And if I am right, why is it commonly still accepted as true even by sceptics?

Are you also aware of more examples of biblical fantasy history? Pray, tell us!

This is all sensationalism.

Just finding ways to criticized Christianity.

None of this gets you very far.even the argument from origins of Life, if the point was as good as, nobody knows' (the evolutionary case is a bit better than that) it doesn't get you to a aprticular religion.

The point about Biblical history is that the Bible version of it is under question. The way it looks is that Israel only emerged 12th c BC or a bit earlier amongst the Amorite tribes in the hills (Finkelstein). There were many gods and the records seem to show that YHWH was just one of them, though quite likely the only one the Israelites had. After the bronze age collapse, the Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites and Moabites expanded into the plain. The Exodus itself has to explain why the conquest happened from the east not from the west. The excuse was, they avoided the land of the Philistines..who didn't exist yet. Hebrews true, won out over the other lands, Edom falling to conquest under the Hasmoneans. But Egypt ruled Canaan, but they also ruled Sinai, so the Hebrews weren't getting out of Egypt by going into Sinai. In short, Biblical history look wrong, at least until we get to Assyria and then it is just propagandised.

You reject all that,waving it all away? Ok, up to you. But I say it is good reason to question and doubt the Biblical version of history.

[The Nice Centurion]

Again, a lamentable situation (not caused but tolerated and regulated) by the God of the bible. That foreigners chose to sell their own brothers and sisters to non natives (something outlawed under the Hebrew system) was not God's doing. But since they did, foreign slaves were arguably much better off in Israel, where physical and sexual abuse, kidnapping and bodily mutilation and human sacrifice, were prohibited and where they came under the Hebrew judiciary sysem. There was also the added benefit of their being able to learn about and even worship the True God.

I can see nothing in the above statement that can scientifically or historically, be proven to be untrue.

It is clearly a matter of opinion whether a knowledge of who the Hebrew and Christian scripture calls "The True God" was comparitively beneficial for individuals concerned (thus modifying the statement with the word "arguably") but within the context of a theological discussion, there is nothing inaccurate in the individual statements:

• The existence of human slavery is a lamentable situation - Generally held opinion

• Slavery is not caused ... by the God of the bible - This statement cannot be proven to be untrue

Elaborate why you think Slavery is not caused ... by the God of the bible.

• Slavery is tolerated and regulated by the God of the bible - The God as depicted in scripture clearly does both

• The selling of native to foreigners was illegal under the Hebrew law FACT

Elaborate why you think that the selling of native to foreigners was illegal under the Hebrew law.

• Physical and sexual abuse, kidnapping and bodily mutilation and human sacrifice were prohibited under Hebrew law FACT

Elaborate why you think that physical and sexual abuse, kidnapping and bodily mutilation and human sacrifice were prohibited under Hebrew law.

• Foreign slaves were arguably much better off under the Hebrew system were such practices were outlawed than alternative systems were such practices were legal - Logically sound opinion

Elaborate why you think that neighbouring states had alternative systems where such practices were legal.
And which were these states?

• Learning about and even worshipping the God of the Hebrews was "arguably" beneficial for foreigners. Opinion

[/quote][/quote]
Elaborate why you think that Learning about and even worshipping the God of the Hebrews was "arguably" beneficial for foreigners.

Questions for debate:
Am I right that this is pseudo historical hogwash?

No (see above)

We'll see.

[JehovahsWitness]

Elaborate why you think Slavery is not caused ... by the God of the bible.

Why should I? That's a theological question and has nothing to do with this thread which is asking about HISTORICAL inaccuracies.

[JehovahsWitness]

Elaborate why you think that the selling of native to foreigners was illegal under the Hebrew law.

Exodus 21:16

Elaborate why you think that physical and sexual abuse, kidnapping and bodily mutilation and human sacrifice were prohibited under Hebrew law.

physical abuse - Exodus 21:26, 27; Exodus 20:10
Sexual abuse- Leviticus 19:17; Lev 18:6
Bodily mutilation - Leviticus 19:28
Human sacrifice - Deut 18:10

[JehovahsWitness]

• Foreign slaves were arguably much better off under the Hebrew system were such practices were outlawed than alternative systems were such practices were legal - Logically sound opinion

Elaborate why you think that neighbouring states had alternative systems where such practices were legal. And which were these states?

Did I say ... "neighbouring States" ?

[JehovahsWitness]

Elaborate why you think that Learning about and even worshipping the God of the Hebrews was "arguably" beneficial for foreigners.

Because it is of my opinion that living according to what is true is always beneficial over living a lie. If YHWH (Jehovah) is the True God (who will reward all those that worship him acceptably with eternal life) then that logically is far more beneficial than worshipping a god that does not even exist. This is of course, not a HISTORICAL claim it is a religious/spiritual one but it is one which nonetheless cannot be falsified.