JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[myth-one.com]

It is the billions of people who will live on the earth forever that are not born-again, since they will not be ruling with Christ, but will enjoy life on this beautiful planet.

In biblical fact, born again Christians are going to rule the earth with Christ for ever and ever on the earth!

God's will is not presently being done on the Earth, so the Earth is not now included in the Kingdom of Heaven. In fact, we are instructed in the Lord's prayer to pray for the Earth to become part of the Kingdom of Heaven:

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)

After the Second Coming and Jesus' defeat of Satan, the Earth will once again become part of the kingdom:

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)

So Jesus will defeat Satan and the Earth will once again become part of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus will then rule the Earth from new Jerusalem for ever and ever. What will born again Christians be doing?

...we shall also reign with him. (II Timothy 2:12)

And how long will we be on the Earth reigning with Jesus? For eternity:

...and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1481]

A lot of what you say is true. God's will is not completely being done now on the earth. When Christ comes back and Paradise becomes a reality, then God's will will take place on the earth.

You don't, however, seem to understand what the New Jerusalem really is. It is Jesus' Bride, those who will rule with him. It is not an actual city. His bride cannot be a city. John said: "I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:2)

Now remember the book of Revelation is largely symbolic. What does New Jerusalem "coming down" mean? It means that God's government of Christ and his bride (New Jerusalem) will influence the earth from heaven, which it is not now doing in the greatest sense. It is waiting for Jesus to go back to the atmosphere of the earth and bring about Armageddon. Then the Kingdom will rule over the earth. It will always be in heaven, just as Jehovah has always been in heaven. It will just be giving concentrated effort to what goes on here on Earth. In that sense it "comes down." New Jerusalem could not be a city because (1) it is the Bride of Christ, 144,000 people, and (2) if the city described in Revelation were to come here to the earth it would extend hundreds of miles out in space. The description of the "city" just emphasizes the beauty of Jesus' Bride which he rules with in heaven.

The "city" and God and Christ will be "with" people on the earth the same way God was "with" people in the past. (Exodus 16:9; Exodus 29:46; Numbers 35:34) If you look up those scriptures you will see what I mean. Also, Jesus said he would be "with" his disciples until the end of the system of things, yet he is in heaven with his Father. (Matt. 28:20) So what does that mean, that he is "with" us?

The same can be applied to God and New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven, and God residing here amongst us.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1481]

A lot of what you say is true. God's will is not completely being done now on the earth. When Christ comes back and Paradise becomes a reality, then God's will will take place on the earth.

You don't, however, seem to understand what the New Jerusalem really is.

I understand that it is very likely a mistake to capitalize the word "new" before the true name of the city, which is Jerusalem:

Revelation 21
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Jerusalem needed to be replaced as the original city passed away with the earth.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1481]

A lot of what you say is true. God's will is not completely being done now on the earth. When Christ comes back and Paradise becomes a reality, then God's will will take place on the earth.

You don't, however, seem to understand what the New Jerusalem really is.

I understand that it is very likely a mistake to capitalize the word "new" before the true name of the city, which is Jerusalem:

Revelation 21
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Jerusalem needed to be replaced as the original city passed away with the earth.

The earth will not literally pass away. (Ecclesiastes 1:4) It will just be cleansed of all evil. It is the wicked people that will be eradicated, not the planet. New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ, not a literal city. (Rev. 21:2) It will "come down" the way God has come down in times past, by turning its attention to the earth, and now by bringing about the power of the Kingdom government by Christ. Christ said he would be "with" us until the end of the system, but he is in heaven with the Father. So God and Jesus can be "with" us when they are in heaven.

[Revelations won]

Dear JW’s,

Response to JW's,


“Philippians 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father
.

What is the name above all names?”

In your responses it should always be remembered that we are speaking of Jesus the Christ who created the heavens and the earth and without him these things would not exist. So in essence he is obviously sovereign over all his creations. He is the literal and legitimate son of the most High God even Elohim who is the supreme God among the God's in the plural according to Genesis 3:22.

Neither will their responses ever be correct because their answers are simply and accurately based on their own “private interpretations”. Further they do not have the “testimony of Jesus” nor can they ever receive that testimony because of their unbelief and private interpretations of the scriptures.

My goodness it is amazing that some will never wake up and receive sound doctrine.

The scriptures make it abundantly clear that no one can receive either salvation or exaltation except by Jesus Christ (Jehovah who is come in the flesh).

Since these parties make their privet interpretation that Jesus is not God the Son, then they have a man made doctrine that one mere moral can atone for the sins of another, in fact for all mankind.

Though he were a son, yet learned he obedience and being made perfect he become the author of eternal salvation for all.

Jesus Christ has been given judgement or all mortals.

He has received ALL that the the Father hath.

He is Lord of lords and King of kings.

He has ALL power.

He has and everlasting kingdom.

He has ALL power in heaven and earth.

He is Alpha and Omega.

He is the chosen redeemer of all mankind.

Has atoned for the sins of all mankind on condition of repentance.

He has provided the wondrous power of the resurrection to all.

He it is who gave the laws of heaven to Moses.

In his coming to birth like the rest of us his mission was Exemplar and illustrator of the law.

In his second coming in power and glory he will come as judge of all and administer the destruction of the wicked to cleanse the earth from all unrighteousness.

Yes indeed his name will be above all other names! Worthy is the Lamb of God!

By his commandments, Atonement and resurrection he brought further glory to God (Eloheim ) his actual father. The Father likewise also glorified his son Jesus the Christ, the Messiah or holy one of Israel!

When he has done all this it is amazing to me that there are those who deny his divinity, Well hath Enoch and Jude testified and prophesied:



Jude 1:

14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16
These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
17
But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22
And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.”

Well hath Isaiah prophesied:

Isaiah 9:
6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Now the bottom line is this:
1.You JW’s claim that Jesus is ruling his kingdom on earth from heaven.

I find this pretty amazing since you DENY All latter day prophets or revelation. One has to wonder how you claim Jesus rules his earthly kingdom with absolutely no revelation??? No communication???

2. The scriptures declare that Christ will be HEIR TO ALL THAT THE FATHER HATH , THAT HE WILL THEN SIT IN HIS FATHERS THRONE, WILL BE GIVEN ALL JUDGEMENT, THAT HE WILL BE GIVEN ALL POWER, BOTH IN HEAVEN AND EARTH, THATR HE WILL RULE IN HEAVEN AND EARTH, THAT HIS KINGDOM WILL BE AN EVERLASTING KINGOM, THAT HE WILL RULE IN HEAVEN AND EARTH, THAT AS ISAIAH HATH PROPHESIED “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder and “AND HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED, Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Now I would ask how can one receive all the power might and glory in both earth and heaven and still remain a mere mortal?

What you are really saying is that we will be judged by our fellow man and not by God..

3, The scriptures also declare that we may become joint heirs with Jesus Christ and also receive all that he has received.

This is a mighty step in man’s eternal destiny which you must either accept or reject.

4. You JW’s have placed yourselves as unauthorized judges over Adam and Eve and condemned them to hell beyond the mighty atonement of Jesus Christ. You deny them the right to repent like other mortals.

I would ask you who gave you the authority to judge other morals and send them to hell?

Can you declare clearly from your JW Bible translation that Adam and Eve are sent to hell with no chance of repentance and that they are beyond the power of redemption by Jesus Christ?

Let us hear you clear answers to all of the above.

Kind regards,
RW
*********2-24-2024*********

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1481]

A lot of what you say is true. God's will is not completely being done now on the earth. When Christ comes back and Paradise becomes a reality, then God's will will take place on the earth.

You don't, however, seem to understand what the New Jerusalem really is.

I understand that it is very likely a mistake to capitalize the word "new" before the true name of the city, which is Jerusalem:

Revelation 21
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Jerusalem needed to be replaced as the original city passed away with the earth.

The earth will not literally pass away. (Ecclesiastes 1:4)

So there will be earth one and earth two. Cool.

It will just be cleansed of all evil. It is the wicked people that will be eradicated, not the planet.

No, this occurs after the judgment and punishments in the lake of fire.

So there are no more wicked. That problem has been resolved!

The remaking of a new heaven and earth will probably be similar to the remaking of the decimated earth which begins in Genesis 1:3.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Billions of years later, God re-created a void, empty, and dark earth to its original good condition which is the earth we were given responsibility for maintaining.

Now, about 7,000 years later, God is again re-creating an earth decimated due to mismanagement. This time man was the cause:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (Matthew 24:21-22)

This will be the second re-creation of a decimated earth brought on by mismanagement of those assigned to care for God's good creation -- the angels failed first and man will fail next.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1486]

The earth isn't totally decimated. It just needs to have the wicked people that are ruining the earth expelled from the it, and then have God's people clean it up. If you had a beautiful house and rented it out to some people who trashed it, punching holes in the walls, breaking the windows, etc., would you tear the house down or would you get rid of the bad tenants?

Revelation 11:18b mentions that God will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth." Why would God take vengeance on the wicked for messing up the earth if He was planning on destroying the earth and starting over anyway? He obviously feels that it is very much worth saving. There is no reason to think that God will destroy the earth and the literal heavens. He wouldn't destroy all the billions of stars and galaxies to the ends of the universe! So we don't take it to mean total destruction where it says that there will be a "new heaven and a new earth." It is like having an old car from the early 20th century that is rusted out and broken down with a destroyed engine and broken headlights. Would someone who loved working on antique cars just throw the car in a junk pile or would he lovingly restore it? I think you know what the answer would be. It is like that with God and His beautiful creations. He doesn't throw away His handiwork and start over, especially when the earth can be saved. And there is zero reason for destroying the heavens.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1486]

The earth isn't totally decimated.

I agree that it will not be. For example, when the earth was described as without form, void, and dark; God did not start from scratch again -- He started by turning the light back on something that was without form and void, but already there.

It (the earth) just needs to have the wicked people that are ruining the earth expelled from the it, and then have God's people clean it up.

Why should God's people have to clean it up -- especially when God offers to.

If you had a beautiful house and rented it out to some people who trashed it, punching holes in the walls, breaking the windows, etc., would you tear the house down or would you get rid of the bad tenants?

I would get rid of the bad tenants and restore the house to a good condition quickly if I was God.

Revelation 11:18b mentions that God will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth." Why would God take vengeance on the wicked for messing up the earth if He was planning on destroying the earth and starting over anyway?

Man is the group which the earth should fear -- not God! In fact, God will intervene to save man from extinction on the earth due to man's abuse of the earth! Under man's rule and rebellion against God, the earth will reach a state of great tribulation:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (Matthew 24:21-22)

There is no reason to think that God will destroy the earth and the literal heavens.

None that I know of. But there has already been one re-creation, repair, restoration . . . or whatever one wants to call it of a very good earth which was decimated or highly abused by those assigned to care for it.

He wouldn't destroy all the billions of stars and galaxies to the ends of the universe! So we don't take it to mean total destruction where it says that there will be a "new heaven and a new earth."

Heavens could mean the atmosphere around the earth. If so, both the earth and its atmosphere are in danger from man's dominion over them at this very moment. And both could need a refurbishing very soon.

[LittleNipper]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1486]

The earth isn't totally decimated. It just needs to have the wicked people that are ruining the earth expelled from the it, and then have God's people clean it up. If you had a beautiful house and rented it out to some people who trashed it, punching holes in the walls, breaking the windows, etc., would you tear the house down or would you get rid of the bad tenants?

Revelation 11:18b mentions that God will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth." Why would God take vengeance on the wicked for messing up the earth if He was planning on destroying the earth and starting over anyway? He obviously feels that it is very much worth saving. There is no reason to think that God will destroy the earth and the literal heavens. He wouldn't destroy all the billions of stars and galaxies to the ends of the universe! So we don't take it to mean total destruction where it says that there will be a "new heaven and a new earth." It is like having an old car from the early 20th century that is rusted out and broken down with a destroyed engine and broken headlights. Would someone who loved working on antique cars just throw the car in a junk pile or would he lovingly restore it? I think you know what the answer would be. It is like that with God and His beautiful creations. He doesn't throw away His handiwork and start over, especially when the earth can be saved. And there is zero reason for destroying the heavens.

Revelations 11:15-18 Reads different to me.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The Bible here is speaking in terms of nations and people. GOD is rewarding those that are saved and punishing those that were trying to live according to their own abilities. The Universe is but material that GOD can recreate or revamp. CHRIST came into this world to save people and not save material things.

[myth-one.com]

The Universe is but material that GOD can recreate or revamp. CHRIST came into this world to save people and not save material things.

Actually, Christ came into the world to save people who are willing to care for and enjoy the beautiful material earth which God created, and do so as God commands.