Is God evil?

[Compassionist]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? Does the existence of evil prove that God is evil? Surely, a good God would have made all living things to be autotrophs instead of making some autotrophs, some herbivores, some carnivores, some omnivores, and some parasites? Here are some examples of evil events which caused or are causing suffering, deaths, and injustices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... death_toll
https://thevegancalculator.com/animal-slaughter

[1213]

[Compassionist]

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #19]
How confident are you that God does not exist? What is the basis for your confidence level?

About 85%. And because I've never seen or perceived him. Now, the being described in the Bible as God might exist (I give that about a 15% chance) but I am about 99.99% confident that he is not God, because he seems malicious. He might not be as malicious as he seems but instead of leading me to think he was malicious, then at the end revealing he had tricked me and he was the kind one and I the malicious one all along, I think a kind and fair god would just... not do that.

As I said in post number 18 in this thread, I don't think we should be killing evil people. I think we should be imprisoning them to protect good people. I am against the death penalty. I am also against using lethal force to stop someone from murdering. We should use stun guns, not lethal bullets.

If we can I agree. The question is what to do when we can't do those things or what to do when evil people stand in the way of good outcomes. I don't really see the murderer as evil. It's the person insisting he has a right to defend with lethal force who is actually evil and may have to go, to prevent the good outcome which is everyone using only nonlethal force against the murderer.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #16

Putting a dog down because he or she is in pain relieves the pain but it also prevents any enjoyment in the future.

So you admit that in this "horrific and unjust world", as you call it, there is enjoyment.

I define good as what helps and evil as what harms........God is the ultimate evil because he failed to prevent all suffering, injustice, and deaths despite being omniscient and omnipotent.

Not necessarily as simple as that. Here's my recollection of an old Chinese parable:

A man who owned a herd of horses went out to gather them into the corral and found that a wild horse had joined them, so he had gained a horse.

"What good fortune!" his neighbors said.

"We shall see," said the cautious man.

As the man's son was trying to break the wild horse in, the animal threw him and he broke his leg in the fall.

"What bad fortune!" the neighbors said.

"We shall see," said the boy's father.

A short time later, the army came through the village and drafted all the able-bodied young men to go off and fight. The young man's broken leg saved him from having to go off to war.......

.......and so on.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #16

Putting a dog down because he or she is in pain relieves the pain but it also prevents any enjoyment in the future.

So you admit that in this "horrific and unjust world", as you call it, there is enjoyment.

I define good as what helps and evil as what harms........God is the ultimate evil because he failed to prevent all suffering, injustice, and deaths despite being omniscient and omnipotent.

Not necessarily as simple as that. Here's my recollection of an old Chinese parable:

A man who owned a herd of horses went out to gather them into the corral and found that a wild horse had joined them, so he had gained a horse.

"What good fortune!" his neighbors said.

"We shall see," said the cautious man.

As the man's son was trying to break the wild horse in, the animal threw him and he broke his leg in the fall.

"What bad fortune!" the neighbors said.

"We shall see," said the boy's father.

A short time later, the army came through the village and drafted all the able-bodied young men to go off and fight. The young man's broken leg saved him from having to go off to war.......

.......and so on.

The horror, the injustice, the suffering, and the deaths far outweigh the enjoyment in the world.

Some events are more good than evil, while other events are more evil than good. For example, getting a vaccine injected into the arm is painful but it protects one from getting ill by being infected by the germ causing the illness. So, this event is more good than evil. Also, what is good for one can be evil for another. For example, when a lion kills and consumes an antelope, the event is good for the lion as the meat keeps him alive but for the antelope the same event is evil because he suffers and dies.

Ultimately, all events from conception lead to death. Every nanosecond brings every organism closer to death. Christians are not exempt from suffering, injustice, and death.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #25

The horror, the injustice, the suffering, and the deaths far outweigh the enjoyment in the world.

That's the Extraordinary Knowledge fallacy, since you would have to live the life of every being to know any such thing.

Ultimately, all events from conception lead to death. Every nanosecond brings every organism closer to death.

And as you yourself have pointed out, death leads to new life----so death is never really triumphant. At the same time that rosebushes have thorns, thornbushes have roses.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #25

The horror, the injustice, the suffering, and the deaths far outweigh the enjoyment in the world.

That's the Extraordinary Knowledge fallacy, since you would have to live the life of every being to know any such thing.

Ultimately, all events from conception lead to death. Every nanosecond brings every organism closer to death.

And as you yourself have pointed out, death leads to new life----so death is never really triumphant. At the same time that rosebushes have thorns, thornbushes have roses.

I am talking about my experience of being me, about all the terrible experiences I have had, and how I am affected by the experiences of other living things. I don't need to directly feel the pain of all sentient organisms by being in their body, to be able to empathise with their pain. I have experienced many different kinds of pain directly. By extension, I can empathise with the pains of other organisms. Can't you?

For me, life is 99.9% negative and 0.1% positive. 99.9% of all the species to evolve so far on Earth are already extinct. The universe is heading towards heat death. Entropy rules. Even the remaining 0.1% species will also go extinct.

Life as I know it
Might is right,
Adapt or die.
The world works thus.
The evil prospers,
The innocent perishes.
Doomed we are,
To suffer,
And to die.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #27

I am talking about my experience of being me, about all the terrible experiences I have had, and how I am affected by the experiences of other living things. I don't need to directly feel the pain of all sentient organisms by being in their body, to be able to empathise with their pain. I have experienced many different kinds of pain directly. By extension, I can empathise with the pains of other organisms. Can't you?

For me, life is 99.9% negative and 0.1% positive. 99.9% of all the species to evolve so far on Earth are already extinct. The universe is heading towards heat death. Entropy rules. Even the remaining 0.1% species will also go extinct.

Life as I know it
Might is right,
Adapt or die.
The world works thus.
The evil prospers,
The innocent perishes.
Doomed we are,
To suffer,
And to die.

Do you believe that having terrible experiences determines one's outlook on life? If that's the case, why do so many who have terrible experiences go on to become some of the most inspiring individuals? Their terrible experiences give shape to their lives, but they decide what the shape will be.

And if it's true that energy can't be destroyed, then even cosmic heat death can lead to the spark of a new universe filled with life.

Here.....

https://greatergood.com/clicktogive/ggc/home

This morning I was moving some stuff around on the porch and discovered a small lizard who had gotten stuck out in the chilly night and could barely move. After I placed it in a sunny patch on my walk, it eventually warmed up enough to move off on its own. And warming up that little lizard warmed the day for me. Shifting that one tiny grain of sand on the beach gave a new design to the whole universe. Try it. As Harlan Ellison used to say, it's good for your soul.

[The Tanager]

[brunumb]

Do you believe that having terrible experiences determines one's outlook on life? If that's the case, why do so many who have terrible experiences go on to become some of the most inspiring individuals? Their terrible experiences give shape to their lives, but they decide what the shape will be.

There are 8 billion people alive now, and billions more now gone. Just how many of those are you suggesting had terrible experiences and gone on to become some of the most inspiring individuals? Or is it just a small number that you may have encountered in books and other media? I wonder how many have had terrible experiences and simply been destroyed by them.