Is God evil?

[Compassionist]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? Does the existence of evil prove that God is evil? Surely, a good God would have made all living things to be autotrophs instead of making some autotrophs, some herbivores, some carnivores, some omnivores, and some parasites? Here are some examples of evil events which caused or are causing suffering, deaths, and injustices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... death_toll
https://thevegancalculator.com/animal-slaughter

[Compassionist]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? ...

So, you would think God is good, if He forces evil people to be good? Isn't that tyrannical?

I don't think God has predestined anyone to be evil.

Isn't it tyrannical to create living things without consent? Isn't it tyrannical to make some good and make some evil? Did you read all the verses on this webpage? https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination

I never wanted to be alive. I wish I was never conceived into this horrific and unjust world full of suffering, injustice, and deaths. According to the Bible, all things (good and evil) are created by God. "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7. God could have made all living things all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful but he didn't. Beings who are all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful do not harm anyone or anything and are not harmed by anyone or anything. Can a tsunami or an earthquake or a volcanic eruption or a flood or a cyclone harm all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful beings? No. God had the opportunity to prevent all suffering, injustice, and deaths by making all living things all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful but he failed to do it. I am not impressed by the Biblical God. Please see https://www.evilbible.com and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com Thank you.

As I have demonstrated in post number 8 on this thread, biological organisms don't have free will. We are prisoners of causality. Isn't it tyrannical to make us constrained by our lack of omnibenevolence, omniscience, and omnipotence?

[The Tanager]

[The Tanager]

[Purple Knight]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? Does the existence of evil prove that God is evil?

No. One good apologetic for this is that God cares what you might do under pressure and this is all a dream anyway and you can't actually hurt people. But... it still matters if you would. So it's just a test.

[Compassionist]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? Does the existence of evil prove that God is evil?

No. One good apologetic for this is that God cares what you might do under pressure and this is all a dream anyway and you can't actually hurt people. But... it still matters if you would. So it's just a test.

Why would an all-knowing God need to test anyone? This makes zero sense. The whole point of testing something is to discover something that is not known. How can you say that we can't actually hurt people? Humans and other living things get hurt and die every second.

[Compassionist]

[Purple Knight]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? Does the existence of evil prove that God is evil?

No. One good apologetic for this is that God cares what you might do under pressure and this is all a dream anyway and you can't actually hurt people. But... it still matters if you would. So it's just a test.

Why would an all-knowing God need to test anyone? This makes zero sense. The whole point of testing something is to discover something that is not known. How can you say that we can't actually hurt people? Humans and other living things get hurt and die every second.

I know this is not the Christian interpretation but I don't think God is all-knowing, at least when it comes to free will. (Or it could be that he has to make you actually go through with it because punishing someone for something they haven't done is wrong.)

But how do you determine what is helpful or harmful? The same action can be helpful to one purpose and harmful to another.

I went down the same path as Compassionist and my answer to this was that you have to separate good and evil people. Evil people are by nature harmers and good ones are by nature helpers. It is good to harm evil (you come out ahead here or at least expect to) and it is good to help good. This is more or less what most people believe, they just won't be so forthright about it.

Any time you have to choose, between people, choose the most moral person. I admit this has a really nasty meta of everyone scrambling to show that they are the most moral so they don't get kicked when they're down and they get helped instead, but it's just where that road goes.

The dog thing is a hard problem and without asking the dog you have to guess. But if someone tells you that they are in so much pain that their existence is overall hurting them, it's a good thing in this philosophy to put them out of their misery.

[Compassionist]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? Does the existence of evil prove that God is evil?

No. One good apologetic for this is that God cares what you might do under pressure and this is all a dream anyway and you can't actually hurt people. But... it still matters if you would. So it's just a test.

Why would an all-knowing God need to test anyone? This makes zero sense. The whole point of testing something is to discover something that is not known. How can you say that we can't actually hurt people? Humans and other living things get hurt and die every second.

I know this is not the Christian interpretation but I don't think God is all-knowing, at least when it comes to free will. (Or it could be that he has to make you actually go through with it because punishing someone for something they haven't done is wrong.)

But how do you determine what is helpful or harmful? The same action can be helpful to one purpose and harmful to another.

I went down the same path as Compassionist and my answer to this was that you have to separate good and evil people. Evil people are by nature harmers and good ones are by nature helpers. It is good to harm evil (you come out ahead here or at least expect to) and it is good to help good. This is more or less what most people believe, they just won't be so forthright about it.

Any time you have to choose, between people, choose the most moral person. I admit this has a really nasty meta of everyone scrambling to show that they are the most moral so they don't get kicked when they're down and they get helped instead, but it's just where that road goes.

The dog thing is a hard problem and without asking the dog you have to guess. But if someone tells you that they are in so much pain that their existence is overall hurting them, it's a good thing in this philosophy to put them out of their misery.

I am an Agnostic Atheist because I can't decide if God is evil and real or evil and imaginary. How do you know that God exists at all? How do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is correct?

You said that it is good to harm evil. Vegans consider non-vegans to be evil. 99.61% of the 8 billion people currently alive are non-vegans. Does this mean vegans should euthanise the non-vegans if they refuse to convert to veganism? No, it doesn't. We should not kill anyone, even if they are evil. We should imprison evil people to protect good people. Should we imprison non-vegans so they can't harm sentient organisms? Some vegans said yes. I know because I asked them.

[Purple Knight]

How do you know that God exists at all?

I don't think he does.

How do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is correct?

I'm just doing the same thing I do for Star Trek and going with it's fiction, but here's the most generous and least problematic interpretation.

You said that it is good to harm evil. Vegans consider non-vegans to be evil. 99.61% of the 8 billion people currently alive are non-vegans. Does this mean vegans should euthanise the non-vegans if they refuse to convert to veganism?

Well, you have to ask yourself what is the greatest good and where you want to end up. You seem to know the second part by heart: You want everybody to be autotrophs. I have to say that'd be nice. It's just that we'll never end up there unless people come out and not only insist that eating meat really is evil, but stand up for that fact. Pouring blood on people isn't going to solve anything. If you really, really, really believe someone is evil, do you have a right to do away with them? I can't answer that for you.

But I have said that despite being pro-choice, the people who blow up Planned Parenthood are right, because they think those fetuses are people. They are defending people. I don't agree with them that a fetus is a person, but they think that and it's murder to them and I agree that you have a right to use deadly force to stop murder.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #19]
How confident are you that God does not exist? What is the basis for your confidence level?

As I said in post number 18 in this thread, I don't think we should be killing evil people. I think we should be imprisoning them to protect good people. I am against the death penalty. I am also against using lethal force to stop someone from murdering. We should use stun guns, not lethal bullets.