Have Gays never been disenfranchised?

[McCulloch]

To quote Dr. ML King's daughter, no one is enslaving homosexuals...or making them sit in the back of the bus. Gays have never been disenfranchised as a group.

Have Gays never been disenfranchised?

[McCulloch]

Alan Mathison Turing, OBE, FRS (pron.: /ˈtjʊərɪŋ/ TEWR-ing; 23 June 1912 – 7 June 1954), was a British mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst, and computer scientist. He was highly influential in the development of computer science, giving a formalisation of the concepts of "algorithm" and "computation" with the Turing machine, which can be considered a model of a general purpose computer. Turing is widely considered to be the father of computer science and artificial intelligence.

During World War II, Turing worked for the Government Code and Cypher School (GC&CS) at Bletchley Park, Britain's codebreaking centre. For a time he was head of Hut 8, the section responsible for German naval cryptanalysis. He devised a number of techniques for breaking German ciphers, including the method of the bombe, an electromechanical machine that could find settings for the Enigma machine.

After the war, he worked at the National Physical Laboratory, where he designed the ACE, one of the first designs for a stored-program computer. In 1948 Turing joined Max Newman's Computing Laboratory at Manchester University, where he assisted in the development of the Manchester computers and became interested in mathematical biology. He wrote a paper on the chemical basis of morphogenesis, and predicted oscillating chemical reactions such as the Belousov–Zhabotinsky reaction, which were first observed in the 1960s.

Turing's homosexuality resulted in a criminal prosecution in 1952, when homosexual acts were still illegal in the United Kingdom. He accepted treatment with female hormones (chemical castration) as an alternative to prison. Turing died in 1954, just over two weeks before his 42nd birthday, from cyanide poisoning. An inquest determined that his death was suicide; his mother and some others believed his death was accidental. On 10 September 2009, following an Internet campaign, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown made an official public apology on behalf of the British government for "the appalling way he was treated". As of May 2012, a private member's bill was put before the House of Lords which would grant Turing a statutory pardon if enacted.

From the Wikipedia bio of Alan Turing.

Sound to me like Gordon Brown, the people and government of the UK disagree with the assertion cited in the OP.

[keithprosser3]

Oscar Wilde is another example of course.

Gays have been persecuted for a very long time.... especially since the rise Christianity. I found this useful resource: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_LGBT_history

[East of Eden]

You guys are arguing two different things, I meant disenfranchise in its common usage about the right to vote, as was the case with blacks and women to whom gays are often wrongly compared. I don't dispute homosexual activity has been illegal.

[micatala]

You guys are arguing two different things, I meant disenfranchise in its common usage about the right to vote, as was the case with blacks and women to whom gays are often wrongly compared. I don't dispute homosexual activity has been illegal.

I am certainly not aware of laws making it illegal or more difficult for gays to vote.

As far as the "back of the bus" comment, perhaps gays have not literally been forced to sit at the back of public transportation. On the other hand, they have been denied housing and employment in some areas and at some times. I would count that as somewhat similar, although that is not technically disenfranchisement.

It is also true that gays, like blacks, have suffered lynchings and similar violence.

Perhaps McCulloch can clarify how narrowly he wants to define disenfranchisement.

[WinePusher]

Have Gays never been disenfranchised?

Alan Mathison Turing, OBE, FRS (pron.: /ˈtjʊərɪŋ/ TEWR-ing; 23 June 1912 – 7 June 1954), was a British mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst, and computer scientist. He was highly influential in the development of computer science, giving a formalisation of the concepts of "algorithm" and "computation" with the Turing machine, which can be considered a model of a general purpose computer. Turing is widely considered to be the father of computer science and artificial intelligence.

During World War II, Turing worked for the Government Code and Cypher School (GC&CS) at Bletchley Park, Britain's codebreaking centre. For a time he was head of Hut 8, the section responsible for German naval cryptanalysis. He devised a number of techniques for breaking German ciphers, including the method of the bombe, an electromechanical machine that could find settings for the Enigma machine.

After the war, he worked at the National Physical Laboratory, where he designed the ACE, one of the first designs for a stored-program computer. In 1948 Turing joined Max Newman's Computing Laboratory at Manchester University, where he assisted in the development of the Manchester computers and became interested in mathematical biology. He wrote a paper on the chemical basis of morphogenesis, and predicted oscillating chemical reactions such as the Belousov–Zhabotinsky reaction, which were first observed in the 1960s.

Turing's homosexuality resulted in a criminal prosecution in 1952, when homosexual acts were still illegal in the United Kingdom. He accepted treatment with female hormones (chemical castration) as an alternative to prison. Turing died in 1954, just over two weeks before his 42nd birthday, from cyanide poisoning. An inquest determined that his death was suicide; his mother and some others believed his death was accidental. On 10 September 2009, following an Internet campaign, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown made an official public apology on behalf of the British government for "the appalling way he was treated". As of May 2012, a private member's bill was put before the House of Lords which would grant Turing a statutory pardon if enacted.

From the Wikipedia bio of Alan Turing.

Sound to me like Gordon Brown, the people and government of the UK disagree with the assertion cited in the OP.

1) How many gay threads does this forum need? It's pretty ridiculous that the only subject people on here feel comfortable debating is gay issues.

2) This is a pretty sloppy thread. I would hope that a person who has accumlated more than 20,000 posts on this forum understands that citing one person doesn't invalidate the assertion that gay people, as a collective group, are not disenfranchised in any way, shape or form. And the person you cited apparently isn't even from the United States.

[Ooberman]

You guys are arguing two different things, I meant disenfranchise in its common usage about the right to vote, as was the case with blacks and women to whom gays are often wrongly compared. I don't dispute homosexual activity has been illegal.

Why not just admit you were wrong?

[Ooberman]

.............


Ending with this gem:

And the person you cited apparently isn't even from the United States.

The shame! How dare to quote an IRRELEVANT article!

Not American? Posh! Pocks on that person for trying!

[WinePusher]

.............


Ending with this gem:

And the person you cited apparently isn't even from the United States.

The shame! How dare to quote an IRRELEVANT article!

Not American? Posh! Pocks on that person for trying!

This makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, please learn the english language so that people can understand what you're writing. Second of all, the quote that was linked in the topic was made in the context of the United States, so linking to an individual who isn't even from the US makes no sense. Gay people are obviously disenfranchised in other parts of the world, no one would dispute that. Thirdly, you apparently don't seem to be interested in having an actual debate. You only seem to be interested in posting imflammatory, nonsensical statements.

[Ooberman]

Aren't gays disenfranchized in God's Judgment? The only Law the Christian is supposed to care about?

I find it funny to see the back peddling to an already ludacris opinion based on, apparently, his sources. When one receives all their info from Apologetic sites, we expect these sweeping statements to be true because why would anyone make up stories about the Bible and facts and such? Especially when those facts are so hard to research?

This whole argument seems to be based on a horrible slide from one connotation of gay and sin to another in which the theist attempts to cover all his bases leaving the atheist scratching for what a valid point might be.

Christians can hardly claim Christianity wasn't intended to be forced, via claims about God's opinion of homosexuality (or other forms of sexual immorality), upon the citizenry by force of moral obligation. Even to the point of defending against the "sin of being gay" with violence.

It's freakin' called "the Love that dare not speak it's name" for fear of reprisal!

The Nazi's killed gays en masse, they thought they were as bad as the jews. Homosexuals are being murdered... as they did during the reign of Moses... by either vigilantes or governments today.

Obviously, some people have a hatred for it, enough to kill. I want to say that I know it's not the fault of Christanity, but that's hard to say when Christianity seems to be the only driver for why people object to gay marriage and homosexual laws. In this country, people are claiming gays don't need any extra favors, meanwhile, a few hours on a plane would have that gay person killed, even with laws in place.

Christians are bullying gay people. They hold it over their head to say, "Yeah, you want respect? Remember, I can always declare God's Law and have you killed... like in the old days. Just be glad I'm a Christian. You better support me or I'll throw you to the Muslims!"

There is a moral superiority of Christians to know they are being oh so gentle and forgiving because they know Yahweh really thinks differently. But, if they can just persuade the gay person to accept the only Good kind of Love of one man between another, it must be Christ...

If Christianity doesn't support bigotry against gays, where does it say it specifically? It specifically says things against it, but never for a moderate view towards it.

Until Jesus there were 6000 years of brutal treatment of a lifestyle that appears to be purely random, and based on environmental factors... Gayness never was a threat, and in fact, often wildly culturally accepted and perhaps encouraged. Perhaps a good number of the large number of divorces in the Bible Belt are because some of them were secretly gay?

In fact, what if 100% of people who don't mind the idea of people being gay are really self-loathing gay people?

Either way, gayness never threatned society, certainly not the coming of Gog and Magog, and all the crazy concepts they had about the world back then.

How many people here have true friends who are gay? How many have enjoyed being in the company of a gay person, just platonically?

Then, how many of you have reserved the idea that you can't approve of them in some way simply because you chose a religion that disapproves of it?

Seems odd that we must hear your opinion about a matter that has nothing to do with your, or anyone else's religion.