On Determining the Litmus for Entrance into the Kindgom

Vanguard · Post by **Vanguard** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:29 am

This OP is a retread of what I had opened up with in the Holy Huddle a couple of months ago. Unfortunately, it did not garner much interest and so I thought it better to put it into more open waters of non-theists participation to see if we can generate more dialogue.

Vanguard wrote:I've struggled with this for some time now. I have made commentary on different threads about my beliefs and recognize that they divurge from the more common, accepted Christian stance (and perhaps from that of my own LDS faith) about how salvation is gained.

For starters, I would like to flesh this out with those who have any type of opinion on the matter. Specifically, on what should a Christian base his belief regards to who is "saved" and who is not?

dunsapy · Post by **dunsapy** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:39 pm

Vanguard wrote:
Surely you don't suggest that all one must do is "declare" the Savior in order to gain salvation?

Paul2 wrote
No. There is nothing we must do.

James 2:14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

James 1: 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected, .............24 YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone. 25 In the same manner was not also Raâ€²hab the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? 26 Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

dunsapy · Post by **dunsapy** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:59 pm

Specifically, on what should a Christian base his belief regards to who is "saved" and who is not?

You base them on what Jesus did. He set the example.

Vanguard · Post by **Vanguard** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:50 pm

dunsapy wrote:
Specifically, on what should a Christian base his belief regards to who is "saved" and who is not?
You base them on what Jesus did. He set the example.

In other words, if we don't do what Jesus did then we're not saved?

dunsapy · Post by **dunsapy** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:33 pm

In other words, if we don't do what Jesus did then we're not saved?

You can do what you like, God gave you free will. That's what people of this world do.
See the result for yourself.

Vanguard · Post by **Vanguard** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:02 am

dunsapy wrote:
In other words, if we don't do what Jesus did then we're not saved?
You can do what you like, God gave you free will. That's what people of this world do.
See the result for yourself.

My question was not whether I can do what I like - that is almost self-evident. Again, my question is whether we must do what Jesus did in order to be saved?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:50 am

Vanguard wrote:
dunsapy wrote:
In other words, if we don't do what Jesus did then we're not saved?
You can do what you like, God gave you free will. That's what people of this world do.
See the result for yourself.
My question was not whether I can do what I like - that is almost self-evident. Again, my question is whether we must do what Jesus did in order to be saved?

If that is the case, I certainly hope that does not include getting yourself crucified. That would be painful.

dunsapy · Post by **dunsapy** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:03 am

My question was not whether I can do what I like - that is almost self-evident. Again, my question is whether we must do what Jesus did in order to be saved?
Yes that is true.

Vanguard · Post by **Vanguard** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:58 pm

dunsapy wrote:
Vanguard wrote:My question was not whether I can do what I like - that is almost self-evident. Again, my question is whether we must do what Jesus did in order to be saved?
Yes that is true.

Do you mean we must approximate in some way what the Savior did or do you literally mean we must do everything?

dunsapy · Post by **dunsapy** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:34 pm

Do you mean we must approximate in some way what the Savior did or do you literally mean we must do everything?

Jesus was perfect. WE were to follow him as close as we can. Jesus was able to cure people , we can't do that. But he did show us how to live. How to deal with other people, he started the congratulations and installed the preaching work, which was the main goal. In the congregations that he set up , no one got paid, everything was as a volunteer. He said you are in the world bet be no part of it. What that means is we don't isolate ourselves, but we take no part in the political affairs like voting or supporting governments. We do not get involved with the wars of man. etc.
Many other things but this is a start.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:49 pm

Do you mean we must approximate in some way what the Savior did or do you literally mean we must do everything?

dunsapy wrote:Jesus was perfect. WE were to follow him as close as we can. Jesus was able to cure people , we can't do that.

Why not?

Mark 16:14-19 (New American Standard Bible) wrote:Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen.
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.