Lost tribes, and claiming to be a Jew

[placebofactor]

I have two questions:

1. Are the ten Northern tribes of Israel lost?

2. Why would anyone in their right mind claim to be a Jew if they were not Jews?

[JehovahsWitness]

...I am saying that nobody claiming to be a decendant of Abraham from this or that tribe can biblically prove to be such.

...They sure can. Go, ask any Orthodox Jews, "What tribe do you belong to?" Most will identify what tribe they are from because of their last names. ...

Can you see the word "prove" in my statement? Do you think there is a difference between somebody saying something and being able to PROVE it? A modern day last name without reliable records reaching back thousand if years, has little bearing on ones link to antiquity , much less to a specific individual like Abraham or his grandsons.

[placebofactor]

...I am saying that nobody claiming to be a decendant of Abraham from this or that tribe can biblically prove to be such.

...They sure can. Go, ask any Orthodox Jews, "What tribe do you belong to?" Most will identify what tribe they are from because of their last names. ...

Can you see the word "prove" in my statement? Do you think there is a difference between somebody saying something and being able to PROVE it? A modern day last name without reliable records reaching back thousand if years, has little bearing on ones link to antiquity , much less to a specific individual like Abraham or his grandsons.

Bottom line As long as the Lord God knows who they are, what difference does it make if men can't?

[JehovahsWitness]

Bottom line As long as the Lord God knows who they are, what difference does it make if men can't?

It makes a difference in any post 70 CE Messianic claim, since genealogical records are one way a person can prove to be a direct descendant of Abraham of the tribe of Judah in the royal line of David.

It also means that nobody can identify which Hebrew tribe they come from , so any claim to be of the tribe if Levi (and consequently any claim to to biblical Priesthood) cannot be verified. Further, since priests were not authorized to marry outside their tribe, it is reasonable to assume the priestly lineage has been corrupted. All this means biblically even if a third temple was rebuilt in Jerusalem, without a qualifying high priest, the structure would be biblically useless.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


RELATED POSTS

Were any of the 12 tribes "lost" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1094390#p1094390

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SPIRITUAL ISRAEL , BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS and ... THE 144, 000

[placebofactor]

Bottom line As long as the Lord God knows who they are, what difference does it make if men can't?

It makes a difference in any post 70 CE Messianic claim, since genealogical records are one way a person can prove to be a direct descendant of Abraham of the tribe of Judah in the royal line of David.

It also means that nobody can identify which Hebrew tribe they come from , so any claim to be of the tribe if Levi (and consequently any claim to to biblical Priesthood) cannot be verified. Further, since priests were not authorized to marry outside their tribe, it is reasonable to assume the priestly lineage has been corrupted. All this means biblically even if a third temple was rebuilt in Jerusalem, without a qualifying high priest, the structure would be biblically useless.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


RELATED POSTS

Were any of the 12 tribes "lost" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1094390#p1094390

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SPIRITUAL ISRAEL , BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS and ... THE 144, 000

This is not a matter for men, it's a spiritual matter. It's between the Lord and the Jews. He will draw the 144,000 Jews from the 12 tribes of Israel to himself. When they are gathered together, the Lord will put his mark upon their foreheads then you and I will know who they are. See how simple that was.

[JehovahsWitness]

Bottom line As long as the Lord God knows who they are, what difference does it make if men can't?

It makes a difference in any post 70 CE Messianic claim, since genealogical records are one way a person can prove to be a direct descendant of Abraham of the tribe of Judah in the royal line of David.

It also means that nobody can identify which Hebrew tribe they come from , so any claim to be of the tribe if Levi (and consequently any claim to to biblical Priesthood) cannot be verified. Further, since priests were not authorized to marry outside their tribe, it is reasonable to assume the priestly lineage has been corrupted. All this means biblically even if a third temple was rebuilt in Jerusalem, without a qualifying high priest, the structure would be biblically useless.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


RELATED POSTS

Were any of the 12 tribes "lost" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1094390#p1094390

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SPIRITUAL ISRAEL , BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS and ... THE 144, 000

This is not a matter for men, it's a spiritual matter. ...

Indeed but these spiritual matters were explained in God's Holy laws. It was in these laws God explained what He expected of his people.

Anyone that reads them can know that what has transpired makes it impossible for the fleshly descendants of Abraham to respect the Mosaic law included its rules about the Priesthood. This is significant in view of what the bible says about Jesus being the High Priest.

[placebofactor]

Bottom line As long as the Lord God knows who they are, what difference does it make if men can't?

It makes a difference in any post 70 CE Messianic claim, since genealogical records are one way a person can prove to be a direct descendant of Abraham of the tribe of Judah in the royal line of David.

It also means that nobody can identify which Hebrew tribe they come from , so any claim to be of the tribe if Levi (and consequently any claim to to biblical Priesthood) cannot be verified. Further, since priests were not authorized to marry outside their tribe, it is reasonable to assume the priestly lineage has been corrupted. All this means biblically even if a third temple was rebuilt in Jerusalem, without a qualifying high priest, the structure would be biblically useless.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


RELATED POSTS

Were any of the 12 tribes "lost" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1094390#p1094390

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SPIRITUAL ISRAEL , BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS and ... THE 144, 000

This is not a matter for men, it's a spiritual matter. ...

Indeed but these spiritual matters were explained in God's Holy laws. It was in these laws God explained what He expected of his people.

He explained them in his prophesies. Revelation 7 is very clear about who will receive His mark. The mark placed on the foreheads of each of the 144,000 may be an identification mark, including the identity of the tribe they belong to. No one knows, but one day soon, we will all know.

Anyone that reads them can know that what has transpired makes it impossible for the fleshly descendants of Abraham to respect the Mosaic law included its rules about the Priesthood. This is significant in view of what the bible says about Jesus being the High Priest.

And the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah, King of Israel after the seed of David, and High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. He confirmed his new covenant with the Jews for 3 1/2 years, and the Jews rejected him and the new covenant when they murdered him. But Daniel wrote that this new covenant will be confirmed for 7 years, so, 7 years it will be. Therefore 3 1/2 years remain. These last 3 1/2 years I believe will be confirmed to the Jews by the testimony of the two witnesses of God, when they're murdered, the 7 years will be completed as prophesied.

[JehovahsWitness]

This is not a matter for men, it's a spiritual matter. ...

Indeed but these spiritual matters were explained in God's Holy laws. It was in these laws God explained what He expected of his people.

Anyone that reads them can know that what has transpired makes it impossible for the fleshly descendants of Abraham to respect the Mosaic law included its rules about the Priesthood. This is significant in view of what the bible says about Jesus being the High Priest.

Revelation 7 is very clear about who will receive His mark.

So? So WHAT!? What has that got to do with anything I wrote in my post?

And the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah...

So ? What has that Got to do with what I wrote regarding Jewish genealogical records ?

[onewithhim]

I have two questions:

1. Are the ten Northern tribes of Israel lost?

2. Why would anyone in their right mind claim to be a Jew if they were not Jews?

The Northern ten tribes were never lost.

That is a good question. Many people believe such things even though there is no scientific proof.

[onewithhim]

What's your point? I'm curious

My point is : That at the time the bible was being written, the ten tribes were not "lost" but today, thousands of years later, for all intent and purposes they are.

Only the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and Catholics follow that line of thinking. When you say lost, are you meaning they can't find their way home, or they don't exist? They exist. My proof, Israel exists today, and 8 million Jews of all 12 tribes now live in Israel.

Maybe all 12 tribes live in Israel today but they don't know which tribe they belong to. All those records were lost when the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 AD.

[placebofactor]

What's your point? I'm curious

My point is : That at the time the bible was being written, the ten tribes were not "lost" but today, thousands of years later, for all intent and purposes they are.

Only the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and Catholics follow that line of thinking. When you say lost, are you meaning they can't find their way home, or they don't exist? They exist. My proof, Israel exists today, and 8 million Jews of all 12 tribes now live in Israel.

Maybe all 12 tribes live in Israel today but they don't know which tribe they belong to. All those records were lost when the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 AD.

The following came from Wikipedia
Jewish genealogy is the study of Jewish families and the tracing of their lineages and history. Since Judaism is not only a religious community but an ethnic group that claims descent from common ancestry, there has been significant interest in tracing Jewish descent. To this day there are Jews who trace their descent from the ancient tribe of priests and Levites of the Jewish Bible and who still receive special recognition in areas such as the Jewish synagogue service.

Due to the importance of Torah learning in the Jewish tradition, genealogical records of rabbis and Hasidic rebbes are carefully recorded and readily available.

The Holocaust was a significant factor in stimulating the research of Jewish genealogy. Many Jews were tormented by questions of what and who had been lost. In response, a number of genealogical agencies were created, including the International Tracing Service in Arolsen, the Search Bureau for Missing Relatives in Jerusalem, and museum and resource Yad Vashem. CRARG (Czestochowa-Radomsko Area Research Group)(www.crarg.org) finds and translates Holocaust survivor lists and death lists from around Poland. Its database is one of the largest on the web, with over 300,000 records so far, covering hundreds of towns and consisting of more than 150 separate projects.

The 1976 TV miniseries of Alex Hailey’s book, Roots: The Saga of an American Family, is generally credited with popularizing genealogy. Finding Our Fathers: A Guidebook to Jewish Genealogy, by Dan Rottenberg, published in 1977, was the first modern guide to tracing Jewish ancestors. From Generation to Generation: How to Trace Your Jewish Genealogy and Family History by Arthur Kurzweil, published in 1980, was a significant text in the evolution of Jewish genealogy. Avotaynu magazine was launched in 1985. JewishGen, an electronic resource for Jewish genealogy, was established in 1987. Following the formation of a number of Jewish genealogical societies, the International Association of Jewish Genealogical Societies (IAJGS) was set up in 1988. Their activities include hosting annual conferences, normally in the United States.