Lesbian Says Gay Marriage is a Lie to Destroy Marriage

[East of Eden]

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/04/29/ ... iage-65379

"Gessen shot out of the gate by stating that “it’s a no-brainer� that gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry. But then she immediately followed this up with, “I also think equally it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist.�

This received prolonged, spirited applause.

“Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we’re going to do with marriage when we get there,� she continued."

Question for debate: Does this statement not support the arguments of those opposed to gay marriage?

[dusk]

Did anybody actually listen to what the woman said?
Picking one sentence out of a long speech that isn't absolutely perfect in its formulation is a tricky thing.

She basically just says that rainbow families and other stranger open family living situations aren't really compatible with the inflexible narrow institution of marriage. She doesn't even talk about same-sex marriage as a recognized and sanctioned bond between TWO people. Basically she is one of those who thing that blood relations is secondary and everybody deeply involved in raising a child should be given the necessary rights and privileges which includes stuff like having two fathers and two mothers at the same time. Not that this is a polygamous relationship but to reflect the reality of which people actually raise a child.

What same-sex marriage does is remove religion from state matters. The only objection of destruction of marriage is only in so far a destruction that the state does not clearly follow the teachings of established religions anymore. It does support and shield that idea of a bond under god. Marriage isn't under god legally only in the minds of certain people and they can continue to believe that. They cannot force others also to bother with god.
What the homosexuals that want same-sex marriage between TWO people want is that their choice of permanent partner is recognized by the people around them. It is the same acquisition of kinship that marriage was primarily for if you asked the lords and ladies of old. The good old that one is taken for good.

That lady in the video simply wanted to go further and have non couples form some sort of recognized bond. She intends to destroy a legal contract that is too inflexible for her taste. Think of that what you will but it has very little to do with same-sex marriage and in part a lot of what she wants would be already covered mostly by existing laws if gay marriage had the exact same rights and status. It just doesn't reflect reality of a few exceptions too well but the few exceptions that need that should deal with it.
Gay people in general are quite a lot though and in some countries they still get imprisoned or worse. Sometimes I feel this whole thing is like not really wanting to let Jews build a Mosque in your capital while they are still persecuted in another country (not today but once).

[KCKID]

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/04/29/ ... iage-65379 "Gessen shot out of the gate by stating that “it’s a no-brainer� that gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry. But then she immediately followed this up with, “I also think equally it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist.� This received prolonged, spirited applause. “Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we’re going to do with marriage when we get there,� she continued." Question for debate: Does this statement not support the arguments of those opposed to gay marriage?

I would say it supports the arguments of those people that are totally opposed to marriage. Although in reality this is just one person giving their opinion and as such it's not much of a support for anything at all. It needs to be asked though, in what way does a homosexual couple getting married diminish a heterosexual marriage?

The same way anything genuine is diminshed by counterfits.

Do you mean like the genuine Sabbath according to commandment #4? Millions of mainstream Christians support (some militantly) a counterfeit 'sabbath' every week and think nothing of it. Are they blind, ignorant, obstinate ...? Whatever ...it's an odd belief system this Christianity.

[Haven]

Well it's true.

There's no point to marriage. Unless it's an open-relationship, the PHD-holding priestly class of the Left would argue.

I'll admit that I could not care any less about marriage. To me, it is simply a socially constructed institution that was initially instituted to ensure the transfer of female property to male ownership. I don't ever plan on getting legally married, and I don't see it as a necessary institution to validate a relationship. It's simply a tradition that is tied to several legal benefits, and it is of course those legal benefits that all people -- regardless of sexual orientation -- are entitled to receiving. In addition, many -- if not most -- people, lesbians and gays included -- see marriage as an important symbol of love and commitment, and to deny that to them is the height of bigotry and hypocrisy.

The bottom line is that I support marriage equality because I believe that LGBT people should be fully included into all spaces of society, even those that I would deem useless.

Of course, I am a leftist who's pursuing a PhD .

[Haven]

Well it's true.

There's no point to marriage. Unless it's an open-relationship, the PHD-holding priestly class of the Left would argue.

I'll admit that I could not care any less about marriage. To me, it is simply a socially constructed institution that was initially instituted to ensure the transfer of female property to male ownership. I don't ever plan on getting legally married, and I don't see it as a necessary institution to validate a relationship. It's simply a tradition that is tied to several legal benefits, and it is of course those legal benefits that all people -- regardless of sexual orientation -- are entitled to receiving. In addition, many -- if not most -- people, lesbians and gays included -- see marriage as an important symbol of love and commitment, and to deny that to them is the height of bigotry and hypocrisy.

The bottom line is that I support marriage equality because I believe that LGBT people should be fully included into all spaces of society, even those that I would deem useless.

Of course, I am a leftist who's pursuing a PhD .

[East of Eden]

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/04/29/ ... iage-65379 "Gessen shot out of the gate by stating that “it’s a no-brainer� that gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry. But then she immediately followed this up with, “I also think equally it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist.� This received prolonged, spirited applause. “Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we’re going to do with marriage when we get there,� she continued." Question for debate: Does this statement not support the arguments of those opposed to gay marriage?

I would say it supports the arguments of those people that are totally opposed to marriage. Although in reality this is just one person giving their opinion and as such it's not much of a support for anything at all. It needs to be asked though, in what way does a homosexual couple getting married diminish a heterosexual marriage?

The same way anything genuine is diminshed by counterfits.

Do you mean like the genuine Sabbath according to commandment #4? Millions of mainstream Christians support (some militantly) a counterfeit 'sabbath' every week and think nothing of it. Are they blind, ignorant, obstinate ...? Whatever ...it's an odd belief system this Christianity.

We're commemorating Sunday, the day Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

[otseng]

is the height of bigotry and hypocrisy.

Moderator Comment

Please avoid insinuating that a member is a bigot. You are free to describe why you think another's position is wrong, but avoid using derogatory labels.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[KCKID]

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/04/29/ ... iage-65379 "Gessen shot out of the gate by stating that “it’s a no-brainer� that gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry. But then she immediately followed this up with, “I also think equally it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist.� This received prolonged, spirited applause. “Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we’re going to do with marriage when we get there,� she continued." Question for debate: Does this statement not support the arguments of those opposed to gay marriage?

I would say it supports the arguments of those people that are totally opposed to marriage. Although in reality this is just one person giving their opinion and as such it's not much of a support for anything at all. It needs to be asked though, in what way does a homosexual couple getting married diminish a heterosexual marriage?

The same way anything genuine is diminshed by counterfits.

Do you mean like the genuine Sabbath according to commandment #4? Millions of mainstream Christians support (some militantly) a counterfeit 'sabbath' every week and think nothing of it. Are they blind, ignorant, obstinate ...? Whatever ...it's an odd belief system this Christianity.

We're commemorating Sunday, the day Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

That's nice. But, what does that have to do with the 4th-commandment? Sunday having become 'a holy day' is totally man made. It is the Christian "Sabbath", i.e. a counterfeit. Ask almost any Christian "Which day is the biblical Sabbath?" and they will respond with "Sunday". There is MUCH ignorance surrounding Christian belief. And yet, so many Christians believe that they know it all.

Anyway, you brought up the term 'counterfeit' and that's what I resonded to.

[Jax Agnesson]

Can I try a slightly fresh approach?
Whatever the origins of marriage, it is not now (and never was) a specifically Christian institution. If gays and lesbians want to have wedding cake and honeymoons, solemn priest-blessings and showers of confetti, group photos in pointy-topped doorways, ringing of village church-bells and all that jazz, well why not? It's a tradition, indulged in by millions of hetero people who never go to church or synagogue except on such occasions.
And it is, (IMO) a totally camp ritual already!
Suppose some Christians wanted to ban atheists from Christmas shopping or Easter-egg giving. I think they would look absurd. Whatever the origin of the Winter and Spring festivals, the modern Xmas and Easter have these days very little connection with their specific stories concerning Jesus of Nazareth. Trying to reclaim Xmas and Easter for Xianity would be an exercise in rebottling genies.
Why not recognise that the fuss about 'gay marriage' is likewise futile?