Once saved

[Menotu]

Is this true?
My grandfather is a retired minister (and an abusive father and husband I should point out). He taught his church that the concept of 'once saved always saved' is true. Many in the city I grew up in attended that church - and many still do even though he's no longer preaching.
Is the concept of 'once saved always saved' true? It is, as I understand it (I didn't attend his church) is once Jesus saves you from your sin, nothing you can do past blasphemy can prohibit you from getting in to heaven. It seems it was a 'once forgiven all future sin will be forgiven'.

I wonder if it's worth mentioning that many members of this church appear to be anything but Christian; from abusers, to adulterers to thieves - with the exception of murderers, most all of them continue to run the course of continued sinners (and not the "we've all sinned" type but the 'I sinned yesterday and will sin tomorrow" type.)

[2timothy316]

OSAS might be the worst teaching ever imagined. Perhaps it's only equal is, "When anyone else does it, it's illegal, but when I do it, it's not."

Hardly the worse teaching ever imagined. What many Christians believe is worse than Once Saved Always Saved is the teaching that a true Christian can lose his salvation. What security is there in that? But I can think of one teaching far worse than either of these: the Biblical doctrine of "lost souls" being burned alive forever in "hell". It doesn't get any worse than that.

Yet the teaching of hell isn't known for misleading people iinto thinking that anything they do is fine as long as they are saved. Plus the pain of hell is false and doesn't actually exist. OSAS leads many to think all they have to do is believe and there is no consequence for their actions. A person could cheat on their spouse, beat on their family every now and again but hey, as long as they believe in Jesus, they are fine. These folks don't fear a fake hell or the real eternal death. They think they are free an clear as long as they believe in Jesus and have been saved. Politicians believe they are 'chosen' by God and do not fear that their wrong doing will have any repercussions from God, because they are saved already. It's this elitist mindset that makes people haughty, better than other races, other nationalities, other sexes, the poor and makes them feel entitled. They place themselves next to Jesus rather than following Jesus. Hell is fake but people with this attitude make a real hell on Earth. Unfaithful Christendom stresses outward show and spectacular works as the big thing, saying: “Master, Master, did we not . . . perform many powerful works in your name?� To which the Master Christ Jesus answers: “I never knew you at all. Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.� Matt. 7:22, 23. Those that think OSAS are in danger of being told, "get away from me" because they think what they did in Jesus name, saying "I do this and I do that for Jesus" is going to let them off the hook for the lawlessness acts they practice.

[PinSeeker]

Yet the teaching of hell isn't known for misleading people iinto thinking that anything they do is fine as long as they are saved.

Well, it doesn't mislead anyone; that much is sure. But some allow themselves to be mislead... by the Deceiver (Satan).

...the pain of hell is false and doesn't actually exist.

Hmmm, well, the pain is real, but it's figurative; it's to be understood as emotional anguish.

OSAS leads many to think all they have to do is believe and there is no consequence for their actions.

Right; this is what we call antinomianism, and is terribly wrong.

Hell is fake...

If hell is fake, then Jesus, Who often clearly spoke of hell as a real place, is a liar, and neither is the case.

Unfaithful Christendom stresses outward show and spectacular works as the big thing, saying: “Master, Master, did we not . . . perform many powerful works in your name?� To which the Master Christ Jesus answers: “I never knew you at all. Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.� Matt. 7:22, 23.

Well, these are the people who think, at least subconsciously, that they save themselves by their works. That doesn't necessarily mean they are not saved; it may, it may not. It may mean that they just don't completely understand Who is truly responsible for their salvation. For Christians, good works are the result of having been saved, and not the other way around.

Those that think OSAS are in danger of being told, "get away from me"...

Right; "Go away into eternal judgment/condemnation," but not "Say good-bye now, because I'm about to wipe you from existence." To do the latter would be a murderous act, and thus transgression of His own Commandment Number Six, and we can most certainly perish that thought out of hand.

Grace and peace to all.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 52 by PinSeeker]

RCC have their own version of OSAS, the confessional. Mess up? It's ok don't panic, tell a priest what you did and do 20 hail Marys and you're right as rain.

[PinSeeker]

RCC have their own version of OSAS, the confessional. Mess up? It's ok don't panic, tell a priest what you did and do 20 hail Marys and you're right as rain.

Yes, the Roman Catholic Church has several problems/misunderstandings, and that's certainly one of them. I'm with ya, there...

[myth-one.com]

Once saved always saved is a true statement.

To become saved from any death, humans must be born again as immortal spiritual bodied beings:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:5-7)

Spiritual beings are immortal.

Thus one needs to be saved only once.

Once saved, one can never die. It is thus a one time event, which can never be rescinded!

Believers will be born again as immortal spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming.

Believers are presently heirs unto salvation.

Thus, no one has as yet been saved.

[Checkpoint]

Once saved always saved is a true statement.

To become saved from any death, humans must be born again as immortal spiritual bodied beings:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:5-7)

Spiritual beings are immortal.

Thus one needs to be saved only once.

Once saved, one can never die. It is thus a one time event, which can never be rescinded!

Believers will be born again as immortal spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming.

Believers are presently heirs unto salvation.

Thus, no one has as yet been saved.

No one has yet been saved by sight; that is, by resurrection to immortality.

Believers are those who walk by faith, not by sight.

By faith, believers walk as the faith children of Abraham, and can therefore confidently say they are saved now, by faith in the God of Abraham.

Romans 4:

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations�) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did

Ephesians 2:

4 But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7 in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of His grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith

[myth-one.com]

By faith, believers walk as the faith children of Abraham, and can therefore confidently say they are saved now, by faith in the God of Abraham.

What do you mean by "saved now."

Are they equating themselves with God by claiming to be immortal?

What believers can confidently say is that their salvation is assured.

[Checkpoint]

By faith, believers walk as the faith children of Abraham, and can therefore confidently say they are saved now, by faith in the God of Abraham.

What do you mean by "saved now."

I mean saved by the faith we now have, that our coming salvation is assured and therefore will happen then.

Perhaps I should have worded it this way:

"...,and can now therefore confidently say they are saved,..."

Are they equating themselves with God by claiming to be immortal?

No. However, immortality is what we seek (Romans 2:7), and we will put it on at the last trump (1 Corinthians 15:52-54).

What believers can confidently say is that their salvation is assured.

Indeed.

In other words, they have been saved by faith, and will receive their salvation at the return of Jesus on the last day, when faith becomes sight.

[myth-one.com]

I mean saved by the faith we now have, that our coming salvation is assured and therefore will happen then.

Perhaps I should have worded it this way:

"...,and can now therefore confidently say they are saved,..."

I would say that we are saved through our faith which we have now, and yes our coming salvation is assured and will happen at the Second Coming.

Believers are currently heirs unto salvation. It is not something believers already possess:

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ... (Romans 8:16-17)

Our names are written in the Book of Life as joint-heirs with Jesus. We have faith that this is the path to salvation.

Without faith, we will not be saved. But we are saved through faith, not by faith.

If we are saved by faith, then we are already saved, and there is no need to be saved again at the Second Coming.

And consider the topic of this thread: Once Saved, Always Saved?

If we are saved by our faith, then the answer to "Once Saved, Always Saved?" becomes no, because one could lose their faith.

There is a "Former Christian" user group on this website.

So if one could lose or forsake their faith, do they also lose their salvation? If so, then once saved always saved would be false, as they would have to regain their faith to once again become saved.

But once believers are born again of the Spirit into everlasting life as immortal spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming, they are saved once and are never in need of salvation ever again by definition of everlasting life.

In other words, they have been saved by faith, and will receive their salvation at the return of Jesus on the last day, when faith becomes sight.

I would change "they have been saved by faith" to "they will be saved by (or through) faith" :

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (II Timothy 3:15)

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 59 by myth-one.com]


Checkpoint wrote:

In other words, they have been saved by faith, and will receive their salvation at the return of Jesus on the last day, when faith becomes sight.

myth-one wrote:

I would change "they have been saved by faith" to "they will be saved by (or through) faith" :

I think we both missed what Paul wrote, twice! :

Ephesians 2:


5 it is by grace you have been saved.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith