Once saved

[Menotu]

Is this true?
My grandfather is a retired minister (and an abusive father and husband I should point out). He taught his church that the concept of 'once saved always saved' is true. Many in the city I grew up in attended that church - and many still do even though he's no longer preaching.
Is the concept of 'once saved always saved' true? It is, as I understand it (I didn't attend his church) is once Jesus saves you from your sin, nothing you can do past blasphemy can prohibit you from getting in to heaven. It seems it was a 'once forgiven all future sin will be forgiven'.

I wonder if it's worth mentioning that many members of this church appear to be anything but Christian; from abusers, to adulterers to thieves - with the exception of murderers, most all of them continue to run the course of continued sinners (and not the "we've all sinned" type but the 'I sinned yesterday and will sin tomorrow" type.)

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]

Well, I would not think it blasphemous to think of man as a trifold being; body, mind and soul, so I cannot think it blasphemous to think of God in that way, either.

So, a person without a body, mind or soul is dead right?
So, when Jesus died did God die?

And before someone answers Jesus didn't really die then that means he was not actually resurrected from the dead.

1 Cor 15:13-17 has this to say if Jesus wasn't resurrected.

"If, indeed, there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised up. But if Christ has not been raised up, our preaching is certainly in vain, and your faith is also in vain. Moreover, we are also found to be false witnesses of God, because we have given witness against God by saying that he raised up the Christ, whom he did not raise up if the dead are really not to be raised up. For if the dead are not to be raised up, neither has Christ been raised up. Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you remain in your sins."

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]

Well, I would not think it blasphemous to think of man as a trifold being; body, mind and soul, so I cannot think it blasphemous to think of God in that way, either.

So, a person without a body, mind or soul is dead right?

Apparently so. Yet, it is the Christian hope and belief that the soul is immortal, so there cannot be a person without a soul, and all those with souls persist eternally.

So, when Jesus died did God die?

See above.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]

Well, I would not think it blasphemous to think of man as a trifold being; body, mind and soul, so I cannot think it blasphemous to think of God in that way, either.

So, a person without a body, mind or soul is dead right?

Apparently so. Yet, it is the Christian hope and belief that the soul is immortal, so there cannot be a person without a soul, and all those with souls persist eternally.

So, when Jesus died did God die?

See above.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Yet the Bible says that the 'soul' can die, so an immortal soul is not scriptural.

(KJV) Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

I find more and more that calling a belief 'christian' doesn't mean the belief is 'scriptural'.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 43 by 2timothy316]

I am sure you are right. But I don't claim to be 'scriptural'. The scriptures were written a long time ago, before the development of theology and philosophy as robust fields of enquiry. I just seek out truth, so far as it is known, and let you make of it what you will.

It may, for example, be kinder to send the Hitlers, Stalins, Pol Pots and Al Assads of the world to oblivion, than have them persist eternally in torment for their activities. You may very well think that, but I could not possibly comment.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[PinSeeker]

Except the word truine because that word isnt in the bible. Never once does the expresson "Triune Jehovah" appear in scripture.

I fully acknowledge that and have never said otherwise. But Jehovah, as described in the Bible, exists in three distinct Persons. The word "triune" very accurately captures and conveys, in one word, the fact that He is three in One and One in three.

By the same token, the word "catholic" never appears in the Bible, either, but we use it to describe Christ's universal, apostolic Church. Now, I feel I must qualify that and say that the Catholic church, just because they call themselves Catholic, is not Christ's universal Church. That will ruffle some feathers, I'm sure... But Christ's catholic church is made up of all believers, those truly regenerate of God.

The point is, we have coined words and phrases to accurately describe all kinds of things, Biblical and otherwise. Such is the case here.

Just between me and you, I don't pay much -- if any at all -- attention to what Divine Insight says... except to find some humor in it from time to time. I might suggest that you do the same. Anyway, I'm sure the feeling is pretty mutual, and that's just as well.

Peace anf grace to you, JW.

[2timothy316]

It may, for example, be kinder to send the Hitlers, Stalins, Pol Pots and Al Assads of the world to oblivion, than have them persist eternally in torment for their activities. You may very well think that, but I could not possibly comment.

Best wishes, 2RM.

According to 2 Peter 3:7 its not eternal life that awaits the wicked.
https://biblehub.com/2_peter/3-7.htm

These are not my thoughts, just what I have read. I'll let others decide if they agree or not with what they read.

[myth-one.com]

OSAS might be the worst teaching ever imagined. Perhaps it's only equal is, "When anyone else does it, it's illegal, but when I do it, it's not."

Hardly the worse teaching ever imagined. What many Christians believe is worse than Once Saved Always Saved is the teaching that a true Christian can lose his salvation. What security is there in that? But I can think of one teaching far worse than either of these: the Biblical doctrine of "lost souls" being burned alive forever in "hell". It doesn't get any worse than that.

But so it is with the Bible. Too many contradictory teachings. One would think this god would make it a little more clear. But then, maybe he purposely intended the confusion. Now that's a scary prospect for his minions.

Good post, Amortalman!

It's sad that religions aren't held accountable for the harm they cause.

There is no biblical doctrine of lost souls being burned alive forever in hell.

The closest one can get to such nonsense is the "Rich Man and Lazarus Parable."

Biblical doctrine is that the wages of sin is death:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

And that death is an everlasting punishment:

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

In other words, the unsaved perish, and never live again:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

=================================================

I disagree that there are contradictory teachings in the scriptures.

Actually, the scriptures form the most amazing book ever written.

The answers to man's every question are placed into a book which is brilliantly sealed from his understanding!

Satan immediately sets man off on the totally wrong path when he instills in man the concept that, "Ye shall not surely die."

If we live forever, we must live somewhere. Christians proclaim they spend eternity in heaven while all others burn in hellfire eternally.

But it is simply not fair that nonbelievers live for eternity in hell with no corporal punishment!

Therefore, they teach that the soul is reunited with an incorruptible physical body at the resurrection.

This physical body can suffer pain but never die.

Now nonbelievers can experience excruciating pain every second for eternity.

Ah, that is now a complete and perfect system!

God is Love?

Duh?

[PinSeeker]

OSAS might be the worst teaching ever imagined. Perhaps it's only equal is, "When anyone else does it, it's illegal, but when I do it, it's not."

Hardly the worse teaching ever imagined. What many Christians believe is worse than Once Saved Always Saved is the teaching that a true Christian can lose his salvation. What security is there in that?

Agreed.

But I can think of one teaching far worse than either of these: the Biblical doctrine of "lost souls" being burned alive forever in "hell". It doesn't get any worse than that.

Well, I can certainly think of worse teachings, but I getcha. Yeah, it's really, really bad. Anyone believing that the "fire" of hell and an actual "burning forever" is sorely lacking in understanding, and to spread that understanding to others is much the worse.

But so it is with the Bible. Too many contradictory teachings. One would think this god would make it a little more clear. But then, maybe he purposely intended the confusion. Now that's a scary prospect for his minions.

There are absolutely no contradictions in the Bible. Nowhere does God ever contradict Himself. God said what He meant... and meant what He said. We have all we need to know in His Word, and it is perfectly clear.

There is a Deceiver: Satan. His deception began in Eden and continues to this day. And we are able to be deceived, because of the sinful state Adam plunged us all into -- his decision to disobey.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]

Well, I would not think it blasphemous to think of man as a trifold being; body, mind and soul, so I cannot think it blasphemous to think of God in that way, either.

So, a person without a body, mind or soul is dead right?

Apparently so. Yet, it is the Christian hope and belief that the soul is immortal, so there cannot be a person without a soul, and all those with souls persist eternally.

So, when Jesus died did God die?

See above.

Best wishes, 2RM.

WHERE is it said that "the soul is immortal"? Please show me.

And then explain what I Timothy 6:16 means:

"[Jesus] is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one ALONE having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light..."


Then, when you have explained that, please explain Ezekiel 18:4 which speaks about a soul DYING:

"...The soul who sins is the one who will die."


I await your explanations.


.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 44 by 2ndRateMind]

The Scriptures were written within the same framework, or, timeline, as other theological and philosophical schools of thought. The Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Greeks and the Romans all had their theologians and philosophers. The Bible was written by people who worshipped, not Baal, Marduk, Amun Ra or Artemis, but Jehovah. There is nothing ignorant or backward about those writers of the Bible. Moses was educated by the Egyptians, and we go all the way to Paul who was highly educated, at the feet of Gamaliel (Acts 22:3). The Bible writers could hold their own with any pagan philosopher. The only difference was to whom a person gave his allegience.


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