Was Jesus crucified on the Passover, of earlier?

[polonius]

The question is whether the Sabbath which came the next day was a Saturday Sabbath or the Passover Sabbath or both. I believe that all the evidence is unanimous that Jesus was crucufied on the day before the Passover. Matthew confirms this, as in Matthew 27:62 he says that the day after the crucifixion was the "one after Preparation Day" (ie preparation day for the Passover.

And John has no Eucharist account at the last supper.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 8 by Difflugia]

Yes so now all we need to know is which day is being referred to. See my earlier posts on this subject.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 932#893932

We do. Your explanation claims that the Synoptics referred to the Passover meal, but John 18:28 meant the Passover festival, a day later. It seems a bit difficult to me, though, to maintain that John was referring to anything other than the meal when the verb he used was eat ("...that they might not be defiled, but might eat the Passover.").

Are you under the impression the festival didnt involve eating?

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[Difflugia]

Are you under the impression the festival didnt involve eating?

Are you under the impression that one eats a festival?

[JehovahsWitness]

Are you under the impression the festival didnt involve eating?

Are you under the impression that one eats a festival?

Are you under the impression one marries a suit?

METONYMY

A figure of speech consisting of the use of the name of one thing for that of another of which it is an attribute or with which it is associated (such as "crown" in "lands belonging to the crown")

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[Difflugia]

Are you under the impression one marries a suit?

I'm really curious what figure of speech you're thinking of here.

METONYMY

A figure of speech consisting of the use of the name of one thing for that of another of which it is an attribute or with which it is associated (such as "crown" in "lands belonging to the crown")

Of course. The πάσχα could refer to either the Passover meal or festival. That's why it matters that the verse uses the phrase "eat the Passover." In the same way that your "crown" example would be different based on if the verb was "addressing" or "wearing," the apologetic argument that John 18:28 refers to the festival fails because it's the Passover meal that is eaten.

[Adstar]

[Replying to post 6 by Difflugia]

Jesus ate the Passover meal on the night preceding the day He was executed.. that was on the same Biblical day as the day He was executed..

The Biblical Day is Not the same as our modern Day which starts at midnight.. Neither is it a day that starts at sunrise.. The Biblical day starts at Sunset.. The Bible day starts in the evening and then the daytime...

This is established early on in the Book of Genesis::

I context::

Genesis 1: KJV
1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. {2} And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. {3} And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. {4} And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. {5} And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Jesus did celebrate the Passover one the same biblical day as he was executed on.. Yes He was executed at near to the same time as the Jews where executing the lambs for their Passover meal.. But the Jews had by their traditions changed the time of the Passover meal to the evening After the Passover day.. They where and mostly now still have their Passover meal on the wrong day.. They conformed to the concept of a day that prevailed in the gentile world,, that being the day started at sunrise for them which is not Biblical.. Jesus who was perfect in knowledge of scripture knew the right time to have the Passover meal.. in the evening before the morning on the 14th day of Nisan..

[Difflugia]

Jesus ate the Passover meal on the night preceding the day He was executed.. that was on the same Biblical day as the day He was executed..

In the Synoptics, that's true. In John, he was crucified the day before the Passover meal was to be eaten.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus ate the Passover meal on the night preceding the day He was executed.. that was on the same Biblical day as the day He was executed..

In the Synoptics, that's true. In John, he was crucified the day before the Passover meal was to be eaten.

John never said the word meal, he referred to eating "the Passover" the question is , which Passover was he referring to eating (John 18:28)?

a) eating the Passover unleaven cakes (nisan 15) or

b) eating the Passover (sedar) lamb (nisan 14)?

[Difflugia]

John never said the word meal, he referred to eating "the Passover" the question is , which Passover was he referring to eating (John 18:28)?

a) eating the Passover unleaven cakes (nisan 15) or

b) eating the Passover (sedar) lamb (nisan 14)?

JW

In the Synoptics, the meal immediately follows the slaughtering of the lamb and is clearly meant to be the Seder. Luke 22:7-8 makes this absolutely explicit:

The day of unleavened bread came, on which the Passover must be sacrificed. Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat.�

John uses "the Passover" in a way that doesn't make the distinction between the Seder and subsequent festival. It's tough to tell if John even knows there's a difference. I personally think John was familiar with the Synoptics and he's just simplifying, but it doesn't really matter either way.

John 13:1 says that the Last Supper took place "before the feast/festival of the Passover." Since there's no other explanation or commentary and John never makes a distinction, it's not reasonable that John here would mean "after the meal, but before the rest of the festival" if he wants a reader to understand what he means. Since the rest of his narrative is quite rich in explanatory detail, I can see no way that even "before the festival of the Passover" could somehow still mean that the Last Supper was the Seder. Given that, even if we're as charitable as possible to your interpretation, I still don't see how John could mean "...might not be defiled and could eat the Passover..." as somehow meaning that the Seder had already been eaten. The Last Supper was before the Seder would be eaten, so even if an unmentioned Passover Seder had happened between the Last Supper and crucifixion in order to preserve the timeline, there's still no way to preserve inerrancy. In the Synoptics, the Last Supper was the Passover Seder. In John, it wasn't.

[tam]

Peace to you,


My Lord celebrated and ate the last meal with His apostles the evening before the rest of Israel would eat the Passover meal. He would not have been able to eat the Passover meal at the same time as the rest of Israel the next day... because He was HIMSELF the Passover Lamb, the Lamb of God.

I cannot say if there is a contradiction between the accounts or not (I suspect not; but I think the different way that days and evenings were marked - sundown to sundown - can be a bit confusing when trying to figure all of this out from two thousand years later). In any case, since Christ was the Passover Lamb, it makes perfect sense to me that the account in "John" is correct and that Christ ate with His chosen apostles a night earlier than the rest of Israel ate the passover meal.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[brianbbs67]

This is what I have come to believe of the 2 Sabbaths of the passion week. Fixes the whole debate.

http://thewayofthemessiah.org/tsp.html