God has a god.

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Checkpoint
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God has a god.

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

Scriptures tell us that God the Father is the God of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Anyone who has a god is not, by definition, God.

Therefore, Jesus Christ is not the one true God.

God the Father has no god.

He is therefore, by definition, God Himself, the only true God.

What say you?

Relevant scriptures
Psalm 45:7;Hebrews 1:9

You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.

John 17:3

Now this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Mark 15:34

And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema
sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

John 20:17

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

2 Corinthians 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,

Ephesians 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 1:3

We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

1 Peter 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy, He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

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Re: Would you, please, tell me what you have come to know...

Post #351

Post by PinSeeker »

onewithhim wrote: I explained that I Corinthians is written for the anointed born-again co-rulers of Christ. Paul did not write it for the vast majority of mankind that will live on the earth.
Yes, you did explain that, and I understood your explanation. No need to repeat. Your "explanation" is -- as I said -- absolutely, unequivocally antithetical to Scripture and thus... wrong.
onewithhim wrote: Romans 6:23, as I already said, is written for everybody, no matter if their hope is heaven or the earth.
Well, it's written (as is 1st Corinthians) whose hope/faith is in Jesus.
onewithhim wrote: Doesn't it say that the gift is everlasting life? It doesn't say "immortality."
LOL! Onewithhim, if one has everlasting life, he/she has immortality; that's the very definition of immortality -- the ability to live forever; eternal life! Wow.
onewithhim wrote: Sure, the co-rulers have immortality, but those of us on Earth can have "everlasting life," as long as we continue to walk with God and Christ as friends, as did Noah and Abraham.
Ah, a works-based salvation; it is on us to earn it by our works. This is the error of every single religion/faith on earth except Christianity. Even some who profess to be Christians -- Jehovah's Witnesses among them -- fall into this abject error. No, our faith -- which itself is the gift of God, so no one may boast (Ephesians 2) -- is in a Savior Who reconciled us to God the Father and secured our salvation for us -- won us victory over sin and death -- by His work of atonement on the cross.
onewithhim wrote: This contradicts nothing.
It contradicts everything. Everything Biblical, that is.
onewithhim wrote: HOW will "heaven and earth one day be one?" This is no false dichotomy that I speak of. Heaven will always be as it is, and the earth will remain as it is, though becoming the Paradise that Jehovah intended it to be under Adam's care. I don't know what you can be referring to when you say they will be one.
Well, let's let John answer that question:
  • "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, 'Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.' " [Revelation 21:1-4]
onewithhim wrote: How can my beliefs be non-biblical?
Let me count the ways... :)
onewithhim wrote: I would venture to say that it is YOUR beliefs that fail to harmonize with the Bible.
Sure you would. Thus, the debate that has raged between us for threads and threads and pages and pages.
onewithhim wrote: What do you say about PSALM 37:9,11 & 29?
I see eternal life promised to all Christians there, and eventual damnation for those who are wicked, whose trust is in anything other than the Lord, as do, I hope, all Christians -- all people, actually -- because this is the correct way to see it.
onewithhim wrote: Evil men will be done away with...
Unbelievers will not be wiped from existence; this is at best a wrong understanding and at worst a heresy. The worthless slave will be thrown out into the outer darkness... evil men (those on Jesus's left) will go away into eternal punishment, in Jesus's own words in Matthew 25).
onewithhim wrote: ...but those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth....The meek will possess the earth and they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace....The righteous will possess the earth and they will LIVE FOREVER ON IT."
Right, this I agree with. All Christians. We will all be co-heirs with Christ. We will all possess immortality -- eternal life. We will all be in the new heaven and the new earth, and the tabernacle of God will be among us, and He will dwell with us, and God Himself will be among us (Revelation 21:1-4).
onewithhim wrote: It is crystal clear that righteous people will live on Earth forever, not go to heaven. So....my beliefs harmonize with the Bible.
Well, your beliefs harmonize with the New World Translation of the Bible, which, as we have discussed, is intentionally misleading and terribly wrong in many places. I would advise getting as far away from it as possible. But of course that's up to you.

Grace and peace to you, onewithhim.

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onewithhim
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Post #352

Post by onewithhim »

Checkpoint wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 346 by Checkpoint]

I realized that it was Pinseeker himself after I read his post again. And...."even more so" Checkpoint? You agree with Pinseeker rather than myself? OK. That's your prerogative.

.
Yes of course, I do agree with Pinseeker on this vital issue, and he with me and others, just as you JWs agree with one another.

Please give me a clear answer to the question I asked in my post to you:post #153, in the Miracles thread.
I will, but I thought that you disagreed with Pinseeker's opinion that Jesus is God. Now you've changed your mind?




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onewithhim
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Post #353

Post by onewithhim »

Checkpoint wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 346 by Checkpoint]

I realized that it was Pinseeker himself after I read his post again. And...."even more so" Checkpoint? You agree with Pinseeker rather than myself? OK. That's your prerogative.

.
Yes of course, I do agree with Pinseeker on this vital issue, and he with me and others, just as you JWs agree with one another.

Please give me a clear answer to the question I asked in my post to you:post #153, in the Miracles thread.
I answered post #153 on the Miracles thread.


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Sojournerofthearth
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Re: Would you, please, tell me what you have come to know...

Post #354

Post by Sojournerofthearth »

[Replying to post 334 by onewithhim]
Soj, would you get something out of an on-line Bible Study that you could indulge in at your own pace and it would cost you nothing (and no one would call on you unless you asked)? Check it out and see if you would like it. www.jw.org
Thanks... I appreciate your interest... but BT-DT.

Let me ask you, since you don't believe we are under "the law," what do you define as a "really bad thing?"

What about eating a piece of fruit that you were told not to eat, after a particularly articulate orator convinced you that it wouldn't be so bad? Have you ever gotten talked into doing something you regret?

What about steadying the Ark when it was about to fall off a cart? It was just a thoughtless reaction.

What about picking up a few sticks on the Sabbath? It was just a few sticks...

Ever tell a lie?

where in the bible does it say that only "really bad sins" bring death? and since you don't believe in the law, how do you define sin?

By what regulations are these eternal humans governed?

Soj

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Re: Would you, please, tell me what you have come to know...

Post #355

Post by onewithhim »

Sojournerofthearth wrote: [Replying to post 334 by onewithhim]
Soj, would you get something out of an on-line Bible Study that you could indulge in at your own pace and it would cost you nothing (and no one would call on you unless you asked)? Check it out and see if you would like it. www.jw.org
Thanks... I appreciate your interest... but BT-DT.

Let me ask you, since you don't believe we are under "the law," what do you define as a "really bad thing?"

What about eating a piece of fruit that you were told not to eat, after a particularly articulate orator convinced you that it wouldn't be so bad? Have you ever gotten talked into doing something you regret?

What about steadying the Ark when it was about to fall off a cart? It was just a thoughtless reaction.

What about picking up a few sticks on the Sabbath? It was just a few sticks...

Ever tell a lie?

where in the bible does it say that only "really bad sins" bring death? and since you don't believe in the law, how do you define sin?

By what regulations are these eternal humans governed?

Soj
(1) A really bad thing would be murder, adultery, stealing, false testimony, mistreating one's parents, and worshipping other gods besides Jehovah.

(2) I wouldn't eat a piece of fruit that someone I love told me not to eat. If I ate it, I would feel that I was totally dishonoring them. I would not continue my friendship with the particularly articulate orator.

(3) About the Ark of the Covenant.....from what I remember, the Ark was being transported against Jehovah's specifications, and was not to be touched by anyone other than designated priests. The whole transferring of it was illegal. To have avoided the striking down of Uzziah, instructions from God should have been followed from the beginning. All of that group was flaunting their disobedience.

(4) Picking up a few sticks on the Sabbath was not going against the Law unless the person was purposely flaunting disobedience of the Law and stocking up for a whole campfire. The Jew' expansion of things in the Law came to be ridiculous. They completely ignored the true meaning of the Sabbath and made their own rules, which burdened men rather than refreshed them. For example, it is totally ridiculous to condemn someone flipping a switch to turn on a light, but that is what the Sabbath means to Jews. If you drag your chair across a dirt floor you are PLOWING!! You get disciplined for that. Jesus addressed this circus by saying of the religious leaders: "They bind up heavy loads and put them on the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger....You have disregarded the weightier things of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness....Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel!" (Matthew 23:4,23,24) "Why do you [the Pharisees] overstep the commandment of God because of your tradition? ...You have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 'This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.'" (Matthew 15:3,6b,7-9)

It is clear that the Jewish leaders had made up their own rules and because of them, overstepped God's own commands.

(5) Yes I've told lies. But I asked forgiveness afterward and determined not to do it again.

(6) Sin is anything that falls short of perfection concerning God's commands and principles. Because we sin daily (mostly without even realizing it or the importance of not doing it), Christ gave us a way out by honoring his sacrifice. We ask forgiveness from God by means of Jesus' ransom payment for us. Those are called unintentional sins.

Sins that we deliberately, intentionally, willfully commit, knowing full-well that they are not acceptable to God, are NOT unintentional sins. They are, therefore, not covered by Jesus' sacrifice. (See Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:26-30.) How much clearer could that be? "For if we practice sins willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left."

(7) By what regulations are these eternal humans governed? you ask. By the two greatest commandments: "'You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with you whole mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:37-40)

If people truly love Jehovah and their neighbors, they will not be worshipping other gods or besmirching His name, nor will they do anything that is listed in the Law not to do. They will know how to act and treat other people because "the Law will be inscribed on their hearts." (Jeremiah 31:31-33)


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brianbbs67
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Re: Would you, please, tell me what you have come to know...

Post #356

Post by brianbbs67 »

[Replying to post 354 by onewithhim]

Sin is still defined as breaking religious law. The term sin, would not exist without a religion.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/de/wor ... glisch/sin

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Re: Would you, please, tell me what you have come to know...

Post #357

Post by 2timothy316 »

brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 354 by onewithhim]

Sin is still defined as breaking religious law. The term sin, would not exist without a religion.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/de/wor ... glisch/sin
The English meaning of sin is quite limited. The term sin wouldn't exist without Jehovah God. It is quite prideful of a group to say 'sin would not exist without a religion'. As if to say without their religion there would be no sin. If there were no religions there still would be sin. When Able was killed by Cain, it wasn't a religious group that said Cain sinned. There was no Mosaic Law yet. Note what Jehovah said to Cain before Cain killed his brother, before any law was written. "But if you do not turn to doing good, sin is crouching at the door, and its craving is to dominate you; but will you get the mastery over it?� - Gen 4:7 So sin is not determined by religions as there was sin before mankind's religious laws.

Sin is from God's standpoint. For example, if a donkey falls into a pit on the Sabbath and people go help get the donkey out isn't that breaking the Sabbath Law? On the surface it seems as though it is. They laboring on the Sabbath. The Jewish leadership certainly thought Jesus was breaking the law when he helped sick and dead people. However, the Bible says that Jesus was free from sin. The Law is not greater than Jehovah and law is not greater than good in God's eyes.

So breaking the law or sin is not from our viewpoint of some written law but from God's viewpoint. Law is not to prevent doing something good in God's eyes, it's from doing something bad in God's eyes. Healing and helping the needy is never a bad thing. Even if it's the Sabbath or even if they are enemies of ours.

“But I say to you who are listening: Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you. To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your outer garment, do not withhold the inner garment either. Give to everyone asking you, and from the one taking your things away, do not ask them back." - Luke 6:27-36

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Re: Would you, please, tell me what you have come to know...

Post #358

Post by PinSeeker »

[Replying to post 356 by 2timothy316]

I'm not really disagreeing with you, 2timothy316, but I would say sin is anything -- anything -- that falls even the slightest but short of God's glory. Which should tell us at least two things:
  • 1. Sin is far, far more than just breaking laws, even if they are given by God Himself. Even in following God's law(s), we do so imperfectly -- which is to say that even if we kept the law to the letter, we wouldn't be doing so perfectly, meaning our righteousness in and of ourselves would be sorely lacking, so even in keeping the law, we would be sinning.

    2. Closely following number 1 above, even the heart-regenerate Christian sins far, far more than he/she can even imagine.
And the result of realizing these two things is (or should be) on of absolute humility and gratefulness that God, in the Person of Jesus Christ, would do such a thing as to impute to us the righteousness of Christ, thereby granting to us His great salvation. This is amazing grace (unmerited favor). That He would love us to this degree is unimaginable and unfathomable. Nobody puts it better than Peter:
  • "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls." [1 Peter 1:3-9 (emphasis mine)]
Back to the original topic, 'God' is descriptive, while 'Lord' is a title given to one of highest esteem, respect and position. Both are applied equally to the Father and the Son, as well as the Holy Spirit. The Lord God is indeed one, and this proclamation and truth is not lessened one iota by the fact that God is three distinct Persons (tri-une). In the same way (but on a lesser scale, of course), 'parent' applies equally to both the father and mother of a child, but the father and mother -- though "one flesh" -- are two distinct persons (bi-une).

Grace and peace to all.

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Post #359

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote:
Checkpoint wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 346 by Checkpoint]

I realized that it was Pinseeker himself after I read his post again. And...."even more so" Checkpoint? You agree with Pinseeker rather than myself? OK. That's your prerogative.

.
Yes of course, I do agree with Pinseeker on this vital issue, and he with me and others, just as you JWs agree with one another.

Please give me a clear answer to the question I asked in my post to you:post #153, in the Miracles thread.
I will, but I thought that you disagreed with Pinseeker's opinion that Jesus is God. Now you've changed your mind?

.
I agree with Pinseeker regarding our JW future issue, but disagree with him regarding the God issue.

I have not changed my mind.

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