Is a fear of Satan irrational?

[Diagoras]

“The Devil made me do it� is a well-known phrase that people often associate with movies and courtrooms. The idea that Satan (the Devil, Lucifer, etc.) somehow has the power to possess people, and direct or persuade them to act against their own will and against the will of God.

The contention here is: it’s not made especially clear in the Bible what powers Satan possesses. To then ascribe him powers of directing people to evil acts, and of being constantly on the lookout for ways to ‘turn’ people away from God suggests a near-omnipotent, omniscient entity. Yet, the few details about him that we can glean from the Bible don’t seem to support that picture.

Therefore, are those who fear Satan being irrational, as they cannot know with certainty whether he possesses enough power to harm them?

I can easily predict the non-theist’s answer, but am genuinely curious to hear theist arguments for or against. Hence posting in this forum rather than C&A to hopefully reach more Christian views and learn from them.

[Diagoras]

[Replying to post 10 by Checkpoint]

I was referring to the poster with that user name, not the actual biblical passage. Sorry for the confusion. (I generally bold posters’ names to make it clearer).

Again, thanks to those who have responsed - some intriguing points I’d like to ponder on and get some more discussion going. A busy few days ahead for me though, so may have to do my research next week.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 1 by Diagoras]

Satan seems to be misunderstood today. I don't think it's anything that needs feared as a being (if it exists), but as an idea.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1 by Diagoras]

Satan seems to be misunderstood today. I don't think it's anything that needs feared as a being (if it exists), but as an idea.

Jesus recognized him as a real evil being, and acted and taught accordingly.

I choose to believe and follow Jesus!

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 1 by Diagoras]

Satan seems to be misunderstood today. I don't think it's anything that needs feared as a being (if it exists), but as an idea.

Jesus recognized him as a real evil being, and acted and taught accordingly.

I choose to believe and follow Jesus!

People can choose whatever they want to believe in.
They just better hope they're right in that belief.

[William]

[Replying to post 12 ]


Menotu: Satan seems to be misunderstood today.

William: In what way do you think Satan is misunderstood?
Are you referring to being misunderstood as a real entity, or misunderstood as that real entity?

Menotu: I don't think it's anything that needs feared as a being...

William: Is it right to fear any being which could harm you? Is the way to deal with such fear, to assume the being does not actually exist?

Menotu: ...but as an idea.

William: Why - as simply an idea - should the idea of Satan be feared?

[William]

[Replying to post 2&7 ]

JehovahsWitness: True Christians don't fear Satan... we HATE him! (Gen 3:15).

William: Ignoring the obvious True Scotsman Fallacy...for now...why do you HATE Satan?

You site the bold - in the script below...and I read the word 'enmity' which is a state or feeling of active opposition or hostility.

If Satan is an enemy of a Follower of Jesus, Jesus told us to LOVE our enemies.

I HATE, therefore LOVE?

The Script: Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?�

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’�

4 “You will not certainly die,� the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.�

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?�

10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.�

11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?�

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.�

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?�

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.�

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.

15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.�

William: It appears that Jesus was lifting YHVH's curse...after years of showing the curse itself was problematic.

JehovahsWitness: Think of the power of then richest moguls whose incomes outstrip most countries, the highest ranking general who with the push of a button can kill millions, the most powerful President of the most powerful nations on earth.... then picture them all as puppets whose strings are ultimately pulled by someone more powerful than them all combined. You then begin to get an idea of the powers of the evil one.

William: If Satan is the ruler of this world, with all the power you bestow on him... are humans 'crushing his head'?
It appears this has never been the case, so that part of YHVH's curse didn't eventuate.

How do you explain away that, JW?

*You even go so far as to bestow such powers on Satan as a being who is able to pretend to be YHVH. That is indeed - a far cry from the "head-crushing" he was supposedly given, don'tcha think?

*[citation]
Post #11 in "Auras" thread, TD&D sub-forum, Tue Dec 20, 2016

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 15 by William]

The way to deal with such fear, to assume the being does not actually exist?[

We cannot deal with fear, or most problem people or situations, by assuming anything.

Rather, surely, it becomes essential to investigate and discover why one is in fear, and deal with its source and go from there.

[onewithhim]

“The Devil made me do it� is a well-known phrase that people often associate with movies and courtrooms. The idea that Satan (the Devil, Lucifer, etc.) somehow has the power to possess people, and direct or persuade them to act against their own will and against the will of God.

The contention here is: it’s not made especially clear in the Bible what powers Satan possesses. To then ascribe him powers of directing people to evil acts, and of being constantly on the lookout for ways to ‘turn’ people away from God suggests a near-omnipotent, omniscient entity. Yet, the few details about him that we can glean from the Bible don’t seem to support that picture.

Therefore, are those who fear Satan being irrational, as they cannot know with certainty whether he possesses enough power to harm them?

I can easily predict the non-theist’s answer, but am genuinely curious to hear theist arguments for or against. Hence posting in this forum rather than C&A to hopefully reach more Christian views and learn from them.

Satan cannot force anyone to go against their own will. I believe that he influences people, and those people can choose if they want to listen or not. Satan is very real and he is powerful at this time, but we do not have to FEAR him. As long as we have Jehovah on our sides, we can thwart him.

Satan doesn't know what we are thinking. He is not all-powerful and omniscient. The Bible shows that he has dominion over all the nations of the earth and is responsible for what the world governments are doing (Luke 4:5,6; I John 5:19). But he can't destroy a person or kill them. He can urge them to do it to themselves or another, but he can't make them do it.

We have the ability to stave off Satan, with Jehovah's help, putting on the whole armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-13), "so that we may not be overreached by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his designs." (2 Corinthians 2:11)



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[onewithhim]

I do not fear Satan.

I fear my weaknesses though. Just as Paul feared that his weaknesses would over take him somehow. (1 Cor 9:27)

This is how sin comes to completion. It's not the Devil that makes a person do it.

"But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death." - James 1:14, 15

Like my friend JW before me said, that doesn't mean we should underestimate Satan the Devil. He watches us closely and finds the desires we are feeding ourselves and will most certainly put something in our path that if we follow it all of the way through, would lead us to an act of worship to him. (2 Cor 11:3)

This might sound unbelievable to most people, but I have experienced Satan putting something in my path to see what I would do, knowing that this was something I would find hard to resist.

He gets you when you're most vulnerable, and I was certainly so. I had gone through a messy divorce, I was taking care of 4 young children on my own, and I felt alone and, quite frankly, bored. I didn't even realize that I had become distant from things that would normally add cheerfulness to a person's life, like music, plants and pretty flowers.....my life was devoid of a lot of things that are beautiful. I didn't even realize at the time that my children were the most beautiful things that anyone could want, and I have since regretted not embracing that.

Anyway, I met a good-looking young man one day and talked to him about the Bible. He seemed interested and later found where I lived and came by and left a romantic note in my door. Wow did that punch a door-bell in my heart. He called me and I just sank like a lead weight. I hadn't even realized I was so hungry for attention. I became thoroughly obsessed with him.

I saw him again and his aftershave smelled so good. It was just the stuff that I liked on a cellular level---a scent that was intoxicating. Then, I kid you not, I smelled that scent everywhere I went! I thought about nothing but this young man.

Finally the coup de gras---he called me and asked me to come over, and I went. My dignity went down the tubes, but I was totally besotted. Now get this---I never smelled that scent of his again! Not ever!

Between that scent and the music that was on the air then, I got lost in this guy. I'd listen to "Hello" (Lionel Richie), "The Longest Time" (Billy Joel), "Misled" & "Tonight" (Kool & the Gang), "What's Love Got To Do With It" (Tina Turner), and many more records of 1984, constantly, thinking of him.

Satan knew just what to do to snag me. It was like he knew I was ripe for major influencing. No one can tell me that the scent that followed me around was just a coincidence. (Oh, and this clinches it---the young man said that he never wore after-shave and never had put anything on.)



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[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 18 by onewithhim]

Satan certainly studies us and knows our weakness thats for sure! Still as the Brother said in this month's Broadcasting . ... "The lions are on a chain" The thing is (as your story illustrates) sometimes Satan can tempt us to step inside the limits of the chain of our own free will... we climb into the cage (to mix my metaphors) of our own freewill because we see (or smell) what we want and dont see the danger!

We've all been there (myself included), anyone who says they haven't is either lying or has been living the cage and doesnt know it.