"Heaven and earth":

[Checkpoint]

This thread stems from this exchange:

onewithhim asked:

[What are your thoughts about "heaven and earth"?]

Checkpoint answered:

[Well, I have certainly given it more thoughts since arriving at this debating site.

One will pass away, and another will appear, is at least a start that we can agree on in any discussion.

Beyond that, there are many thoughts, many opinions, many interpretations of what relevant scripture means and how to approach it.

My thoughts, my opinions, my way of approach, are at most still tentative.

But I welcome discussion of any aspect and any verses.

But not on this thread. but on a new one I am about to start.

We can share there our thoughts on "heaven and earth"? (i.e. not heaven only and not earth only)]

So, join this discussion and debate!

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]

Ah, here we are!

I think that putting even a small amount of thought into this subject will lead anyone to realize that the Scriptures , when they speak of "new heavens and new earth," are referring to (1) cleansed heavens and earth, if we're being literal, or (2)symbolic "heavens and earth" if we are not being literal. Either way, the literal, physical heavens and Earth are not going anywhere. Jehovah and His Son created all this, the universe with the Earth, and there is no reason at all that they should do away with any of it. In fact, Revelation says that God "will bring to ruin those ruining the earth." I think that shows us how much He cares for His beautiful work. (Rev.11:18)

The Scriptures tell us that "[the earth abideth FOREVER." (Eccles.1:4, KJV)

"Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed FOREVER?" (Psalm 104:5, KJV)

"Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it ABIDETH [or, as in the margin: STANDETH].]" (Psalm 119:90, KJV)


So it looks like the earth will always exist---this same planet. So what does Peter mean when he writes about the earth "burning up?" How about the earth and the works in it being discovered, or, uncovered? Works being REVEALED? This idea lends more credence to the end-time events, taking all scriptures into consideration.

How can the heavens be "on fire"? And for what reason? (2Peter 3:12) God would set fire to all the billions upon billions of stars and planets in the universe?? I really don't think so!

The clue as to what this all means is found in 2Peter 3:7. What is it that needs to be destroyed? It tells us in the last two words of the verse. It is not the earth that needs to be destroyed. (The earth and the heavens never did anything to make them worthy of destruction.) If you disagree, please state the reasons that you think that the heavens and the earth should be destroyed.

[Wootah]

Do I get a new body when I am raised up or my old one?

[onewithhim]

I'm very surprised that this isn't engendering more comments!

[Checkpoint]

I'm very surprised that this isn't engendering more comments!

Me too.

It's early, and I may have bombed in what was and/or wasn't said.

Ah well, live and learn, I guess.

Let's wait and see.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]

It probably has a lot to do with how those terms are used. I don't think they are terms are 100% sedimentary in their meaning. In other words, they have different meanings to different people when used in different circumstances, as is most (if not all) things written about the religious.
Fundamentally, there's no one right answer.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]

It probably has a lot to do with how those terms are used. I don't think they are terms are 100% sedimentary in their meaning. In other words, they have different meanings to different people when used in different circumstances, as is most (if not all) things written about the religious.
Fundamentally, there's no one right answer.

There has to be "one right answer," just as there has to be one right answer as to, for instance, "who is God?" To understand what a "new heavens and new earth" means is very important. It is a promise from God, and I'm sure He wants us to understand what He intends to do.

I think it is pretty easy to see what "new heavens and new earth" are NOT. Please see my post #2 above and tell me if that reasoning makes sense to you.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]

Ah, here we are!

I think that putting even a small amount of thought into this subject will lead anyone to realize that the Scriptures , when they speak of "new heavens and new earth," are referring to (1) cleansed heavens and earth, if we're being literal, or (2)symbolic "heavens and earth" if we are not being literal. Either way, the literal, physical heavens and Earth are not going anywhere. Jehovah and His Son created all this, the universe with the Earth, and there is no reason at all that they should do away with any of it. In fact, Revelation says that God "will bring to ruin those ruining the earth." I think that shows us how much He cares for His beautiful work. (Rev.11:18)

The Scriptures tell us that "[the earth abideth FOREVER." (Eccles.1:4, KJV)

"Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed FOREVER?" (Psalm 104:5, KJV)

"Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it ABIDETH [or, as in the margin: STANDETH].]" (Psalm 119:90, KJV)


So it looks like the earth will always exist---this same planet. So what does Peter mean when he writes about the earth "burning up?" How about the earth and the works in it being discovered, or, uncovered? Works being REVEALED? This idea lends more credence to the end-time events, taking all scriptures into consideration.

How can the heavens be "on fire"? And for what reason? (2Peter 3:12) God would set fire to all the billions upon billions of stars and planets in the universe?? I really don't think so!

The clue as to what this all means is found in 2Peter 3:7. What is it that needs to be destroyed? It tells us in the last two words of the verse. It is not the earth that needs to be destroyed. (The earth and the heavens never did anything to make them worthy of destruction.) If you disagree, please state the reasons that you think that the heavens and the earth should be destroyed.

All the other dead planets in our solar system still exist, except one has been down graded recently.

New Heaven and new earth could mean anything. Either or/both. Isn't it interesting that all other planets are dead in our suns orbit? This means one of 2 things(maybe more). We are the first and other worlds will be developed. Or we will be the last and a new solar system needs to be found.

One should never lock themselves into a doctrine, spiritually, because no one here Knows anything for sure. "And the dead know nothing". Follow what you see to be true, but don't be surprised if it changes one day.

We here know one thing(unless we deny). There is God and its not me.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 6 by onewithhim]

Of course there's one right answers. What I meant to say was we'll never find that one right answer

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 6 by onewithhim]

Of course there's one right answers. What I meant to say was we'll never find that one right answer

Why not?